In Depth Analysis of the Panthers Roster

[thefuzz]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Oh the amount of expiring contracts and decisions on younger players coming this offseason and next are absurd. Pretty much every player on the roster is going to be coming up on a new deal.

This is a critical offseason to see where the owner sees us as a franchise. If he can get a GM and HC that can steady the ship, I think that is possible. But if we decide to nuke the whole thing and begin true rebuilding? Boy.......it could get ugly really fast. I mean Bengals ugly and not for a season or two, for a while. 

I agree with you....somewhat.

But honestly, how much uglier can it get?  Last season was one of the worst collapses in NFL history, and this season we are losing in the 2nd half of the season to 2 win teams....

As I have stated many times, 7-9/9-7 is a BAD place to be in this league, and that's exactly where we are.

We need to hit the reset button, badly.

[Anybodyhome]

I must admit, there was far more effort put into this analysis than any effort toward in-game adjustments yesterday.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I agree with you....somewhat.

But honestly, how much uglier can it get?  Last season was one of the worst collapses in NFL history, and this season we are losing in the 2nd half of the season to 2 win teams....

As I have stated many times, 7-9/9-7 is a BAD place to be in this league, and that's exactly where we are.

We need to hit the reset button, badly.

It can get a lot worse. A LOT worse. We've been through those times as a franchise. I, for one, am not wanting to see this entire thing torn to the ground because the history of franchises that do that is not very good. You don't see good or great franchises ever tearing down to be a 0-5 win team for multiple years to acquire talent. You do see historically bad franchises do that, however. 

Ideally, we can "retool" and fortify whatever talent that we do still have to build a competitive roster for next season around a new HC and new GM. While we do have all these contracts coming up and expiring, we also have almost no one on the roster long term, so all the cap space in the world to work with. 

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Oh this was mostly in jest. I'll do a serious analysis of the Panthers roster, and what the plan should be going into the 2020 offseason like I normally do.

Maybe. If I don't get too burnt out on the Panthers and football in general. It isn't looking to good at this point. I'm already not going to watch again until Ron and Norv are canned.

I'd say the biggest problem with our roster is the guys who built it.

Everything was built to Ron's specifications, which I think we can all now comfortably say are "flawed".

And I suspect that even if he disagreed with him on some areas, I doubt Ron got much really strong push back from Marty.

[thefuzz]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It can get a lot worse. A LOT worse. We've been through those times as a franchise. I, for one, am not wanting to see this entire thing torn to the ground because the history of franchises that do that is not very good. You don't see good or great franchises ever tearing down to be a 0-5 win team for multiple years to acquire talent. You do see historically bad franchises do that, however. 

Ideally, we can "retool" and fortify whatever talent that we do still have to build a competitive roster for next season around a new HC and new GM. While we do have all these contracts coming up and expiring, we also have almost no one on the roster long term, so all the cap space in the world to work with. 

The only way to build a consistent winner in the NFL is to be completely set at QB, with a HOFer behind center, or to be very good at drafting, identifying what players to extend, and knowing when to let the players whose price doesn't match the play go...at the right time.

That will take time.

At the end of the day we had to endure a 1 win season to get Cam Newton, now, had we had a smart GM at the time, we would have handled that rebuild smartly, we didn't, but that's not a surprise to anyone.  Let's not try that method again.

I'm just not here to play paddy cake, we need a fresh start as a franchise.

[Mr. Scot]

We definitely need to rebuild from the ground up if we wanted to be a better team.

But yeah, nobody should be under the illusion that that's going to happen overnight.

 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The only way to build a consistent winner in the NFL is to be completely set at QB, with a HOFer behind center, or to be very good at drafting, identifying what players to extend, and knowing when to let the players whose price doesn't match the play go...at the right time.

That will take time.

At the end of the day we had to endure a 1 win season to get Cam Newton, now, had we had a smart GM at the time, we would have handled that rebuild smartly, we didn't, but that's not a surprise to anyone.  Let's not try that method again.

I'm just not here to play paddy cake, we need a fresh start as a franchise.

Agreed. I think if we get the right GM and HC in here, we can take the pieces we have, decide on a "core" to build around and move forward making good personnel decisions to build us back to being a good team. It isn't likely to happen overnight and it may require us spending some money on a good journeyman QB in the interim. 

It's going to be a wild and stressful ride this offseason, I suspect. 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

We definitely need to rebuild from the ground up if we wanted to be a better team.

But yeah, nobody should be under the illusion that that's going to happen overnight.

 

But do you honestly think that razing the current roster of all it's talent is the prudent move? 

[BurnHurnBurn]

49 minutes ago, Bronn said:

QB
Kyle Allen  - Glorified backup, currently unfit to be a starter (Agreed)
Will Grier - okay beard, okay sideline skills (Agreed)

RB
CMC - "OMG guys he is totally the greatest RB of ALL TIME. OF ALL TIME" (He's good.  Real good)

FB
Alex Armah - good at catching people that break into his car, plays an obsolete position in the NFL (Poorly utilized)

WR
DJ Moore - He's okay. I still say he's too soft, but he is improving (3rd year leap incoming)
Curtis Samuel - Decent body catches when he's open, but for the love of all things please don't touch him or expect him to not run out of bounds to avoid contact. SOFT (Accurate, but he's tiny and oft injured)
Jairus Byrd - Good third down WR on a bad team (Agreed)

TE
Greg Olsen - old, slow, injured. Probably done as a Panther this season. (Invaluable leadership, will be sorely missed. ie: TD)

Chris Manhertz - glorified extra blocker that even does that sub-par (Would not make another roster)
Ian Thomas - on any other team, the future at the TE position (With proper development, Absolutely)

OL
Taylor Moton - probably our best OL right now (Agreed)
Dennis Daley - probably our second best OL right now (Excited to see him develop)
Greg Little - his head hurts (Worried for his longevity)
Daryl Williams - Trash. Absolute trash. $6M worth of trash. (Yeah, the comeback that wasn't)
Trai Turner - Really really underwhelming this year. Almost as bad as Daryl Williams IMHO. (Got paid)

Matt Paradis - The healthier of the Kalil redheaded step brothers. And he's pretty overpaid, too. (Got hurt, Got paid, Got beat.)

Tyler Larsen, Brad Lundblade, and Garret McGhin - JAGs and warm bodies, at this point. (Roster fill)

DL
Gerald McCoy -  our best DL right now, but getting worn down fast (Sad really.  I was so happy we got him)
Kyle Love - our second best DL right now (All you need is Love)

Vernon Butler - never thought I'd say this, but he's playing pretty hard and doing enough good to outweigh the bad(The young man looks like he can actually play.)

Efe Obada - the same lunchpail guy he's always been, but playing out of position due to injuries (Gotta have guys like him)

Woodrow Hamilton - JAG with a decently cool name (N/A)
Stacy McGee - I have literally no idea who this is (N/A)
Wes Horton - I thought it was a good signing, but I can't say I've seen him other than on the sidelines last week (Familiar name, that is all)

LB
Luke Kuechly - GOAT MLB but he looks lost/slow at times this year (Hilariously, his coach thought it best to make him a 3-4 inside LB instead of being arguably the single best 4-3 MLB the league has ever seen)

Shaq Thompson - Has shown flashes, but is inconsistent and just as lost as everyone on defense at times (See above statement)

Mario Addison - Sacks are good, but he's overpaid and inconsistent (Has been nothing but consistent.  A ridiculously good return on a UDFA)

Brian Burns - Good when he can see the field, but he seems to get hurt a lot (He's small, but his coach hates rooks)

Bruce Irvin - Veteran presence, but needs to be more situational than we've been using him (Receives Vet priority from coach over stud rookie)

Marquis Haynes, Christian Miller - Both have shown flashes, but either can't see the field or get healthy (Great candidates for development)

Jermaine Carter - generational talent at recovering onside kicks (He too has potential)
Andre Smith, Jordan Kunaszyk - can't really see the field (Not enough data)

DB
James Bradberry - our best DB, which isn't saying much (Really, really good CB in this system)
Eric Reid - National hero and very good Safety, especially in the box (Skip)

(Donte Jackson - Fast. But all talk, no action. He never came down from that great pick earlier in the season. (Fair, but I would phrase it, his groin never came down.  Cant run with that)
Ross Cockrell - probably our 2nd best CB, if you aren't playing favorites. I'd like to see him at FS some, actually. (Better comeback than Darryl, good player we should keep)
Tre Boston - Hard hitting. Not so great in coverage. (fine stop gap, needs improvement)
Javien Elliot - I had higher hopes for him, but he isn't that special. (Good tackling nickel.  that's it really)
Corn Elder and Cole Luke - JAG warm bodies (bottom of the roster)

ST/JAGs/Why do these guys have a job?
Reggie Bonnafon & Mike Davis - nah, let's force it to CMC all the time (Coaching)
Donte Moncreif - lol who? (Coaching)
Brandon Zylstra - lol who again? (Had to check to make sure this was a thing)
DeAndrew White - Hard headed (*checks again*)
Colin Jones - Coach Rivera's son (For some reason this team has always had a Colin Jones or a Karl Hankton or a Nick Goins I think its just one of those quirks)
JJ Jansen - he has one job. ONE JOB. (and he's done it fabulously)
Joey Slye - I thought he looked pretty cool for a kicker until I realized he was going bald (Fool's Gold)
Mike Palardy - Team MVP most weeks (is able to tear the skin off the ball)


IR
Cam Newton - GOAT Panthers QB. Should finish his career here under better coaching/line. (I will tell stories of his greatness to my progeny.  His deeds will not go in vain.  My Captain!)

Dontari Poe - Underachieving against the run. Needs to take a pay cut or hit the road under a new regime. (The only real 3-4 D-lineman we had on the roster.  Aside from maybe Butler now)

Jordan Scarlett - We hardly knew ye. (Coaching)
Kawann Short - I'd want to quit and go to IR too, as much as we were getting run over. Needs to restructure his contract. (Got paid)
GVR - Thanks for making way for Daryl Williams. Seriously, thanks. (Just not good enough)
Everyone else - I don't care, tbqh. (Just not good enough)
 

 

[thefuzz]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

We definitely need to rebuild from the ground up if we wanted to be a better team.

But yeah, nobody should be under the illusion that that's going to happen overnight.

 

Here's where the rubber meets the road.

What players are defense and offense would be considered "must haves"?  Meaning what can we build around moving forward.

Unfortunately, I see very few, and even less who are under contract moving forward and aren't overpaid.

We, as fans, overrate our own....that's a mistake.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

But do you honestly think that razing the current roster of all it's talent is the prudent move? 

A lot of that is going to happen on its own.

As I recall, we have something less than 50% of our current roster under contract next year.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Agreed. I think if we get the right GM and HC in here, we can take the pieces we have, decide on a "core" to build around and move forward making good personnel decisions to build us back to being a good team. It isn't likely to happen overnight and it may require us spending some money on a good journeyman QB in the interim. 

It's going to be a wild and stressful ride this offseason, I suspect. 

Who is your core, and are they signed longterm already?

That's the major issue I have with folks saying that they don't want to tear it down.  Well, what player are currently on the roster that you want to build around?  I see very few.

[BurnHurnBurn]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

But do you honestly think that razing the current roster of all it's talent is the prudent move? 

Depends on what you think the problem is?  If its philosophy, you raze the FO and Staff.  If you think its talent/culture you firesale the roster and jettison as many "old guard" vets as your salary cap will allow.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Here's where the rubber meets the road.

What players are defense and offense would be considered "must haves"?  Meaning what can we build around moving forward.

Unfortunately, I see very few, and even less who are under contract moving forward and aren't overpaid.

We, as fans, overrate our own....that's a mistake.

I think it was Igo who said McCaffrey stays and anybody else is optional.

I think you do have to keep Luke but put him back in a 4-3 and hope the system was the real problem.

I'd really love to keep James Bradberry.

Beyond that, most of the other names are about 50/50. I could see keeping some of them but I also wouldn't scream if we let them go.