Interesting Stat on DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel

[45catfan]

40 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think he was over drafted if your plans were to have him line up and just play WR

We basically would have needed to of not drafted CMC. Have him been a complementary player in our backfield that would then motion out to WR.   Basically be CMC super lite. 

I still think people forget he was more RB than WR in college and his issues aren’t all his QB

Gettleman wanted us to get faster at the skill positions and we did.  Norv just has to figure out how to get the ball in his hands more than just jet sweeps (outside of his normal WR duties) if we really want to fully utilize his talents.  I wouldn't mind see him actually take a few snaps as a RB, line both he and CMC up in the backfield in a full house house look or take some toss sweeps.  Heck even a wildcat look with CMC acting as the QB with Samuel in there.  It's not to hard to draw up.  The Saints do these exotic looks often.  We run the same sheet over and over. 

[Catsmiaow]

8 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Winston is currently #2 in the NFL in total yards with about 1,200 more yards than Allen.  Somebody had to catch those passes.  In order to catch the passes, they need to be fairly accurate.  Winston has also thrown about 100 more passes.  Winston is also top 5 in average yards per game.  So yeah while he throws a TON of INTs which kills his QB rating, he's also distributing the heck out of the rock too. 

Point taken and although you're right that he's capable of a good deep throw he's in a high volume air attack with two physical receivers who can win contested balls. The interceptions would tend to suggest he misses often too. Our recent draft targets have been attributes guys not route runners and hand catchers. We took Benjamin and Funchess for height and Samuel and Moore for speed. Maybe instead of drafting guys who only work in contrived matchups we should consider rounded players who win based on skillset rather than attribute. Ideally that honed that skillset in college not going into the NFL and doing something for the first time.

[rippadonn]

Yeah, DJ is beasting and Curtis misses Cam.

[mav1234]

It isn't just deep balls.  Curtis Samuel is 3rd worst in the league, catching only ~50% of the balls thrown his way. Moore is significantly better (way over 60%).

[45catfan]

6 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

It isn't just deep balls.  Curtis Samuel is 3rd worst in the league, catching only ~50% of the balls thrown his way. Moore is significantly better (way over 60%).

I'd have to look at the numbers, but Curtis does run deeper routes which requires the QB to have more touch on the passes.  DJ runs shallower, underneath routes where the QB isn't required to throw passes with pin-point accuracy just in the catch radius.  I don't care who you are, it's tougher to hit a target 20+ yards down field running away from you than hitting a target 10 yards away cutting across your face.  Certain QBs are gifted in that regard and have an exceptional touch on the deep ball.  Not slamming our QBs, but they struggle with it, though admittedly it's far from easy.

[PootieNunu]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I'd have to look at the numbers, but Curtis does run deeper routes which requires the QB to have more touch on the passes.  DJ runs shallower, underneath routes where the QB isn't required to throw passes with pin-point accuracy just in the catch radius.  I don't care who you are, it's tougher to hit a target 20+ yards down field running away from you than hitting a target 10 yards away cutting across your face.  Certain QBs are gifted in that regard and have an exceptional touch on the deep ball.  Not slamming our QBs, but they struggle with it, though admittedly it's far from easy.

This is just a copout for our QB's if you suck at throwing the deep ball you need to be throwing deep balls over and over to practice, how many guys could not shoot a 3 when they entered the NBA and now hit them with regularity? 

Our coaches routinely ask guys to do stuff that they are not very proficient at, instead of finding out what they are good at they just keep slamming that square peg into a round hole only to find out it does not fit.

[45catfan]

4 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

This is just a copout for our QB's if you suck at throwing the deep ball you need to be throwing deep balls over and over to practice, how many guys could not shoot a 3 when they entered the NBA and now hit them with regularity? 

Our coaches routinely ask guys to do stuff that they are not very proficient at, instead of finding out what they are good at they just keep slamming that square peg into a round hole only to find out it does not fit.

I agree, but the QBs don't get hit in practice and I doubt remotely get the same pressure.  I'm sure Allen (and even Cam) can throw a decent deep ball versus air or a half-hearted pass rush in practice.  The trick is doing it in a game environment.  That's the problem.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Specifically talking deep balls? Yeah, he's actually pretty good. He's 3rd in the NFL in 20+ yard completions, 2nd in 40+. Allen is 23rd and 22nd, respectively. Allen's longest completion is 52 yards good for 32nd in the NFL.

Simply looking at completion yardage is not a reliable indicator of a QB’s deep ball. I’m assuming you know that those rankings you were looking at (that had Kyle Allen at 32nd) accounts for YAC and is not an indicator of how far the ball actually traveled in the air. Otherwise Sam Darnold threw the ball a league-leading 92 yards down the field.

Again, I’m assuming you understood that...but you opened by talking about deep balls and then immediately proceeded to provide stats of completion yardage to support that premise, so it would appear that you’re equating the two.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Simply looking at completion yardage is not a reliable indicator of a QB’s deep ball. I’m assuming you know that those rankings you were looking at (that had Kyle Allen at 32nd) accounts for YAC and is not an indicator of how far the ball actually traveled in the air. Otherwise Sam Darnold threw the ball a league-leading 92 yards down the field.

Again, I’m assuming you understood that...but you opened by talking about deep balls and then immediately proceeded to provide stats of completion yardage to support that premise, so it would appear that you’re equating the two.

When you're in the bottom two thirds of the league in all the deep ball stats...

[MasterAwesome]

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

When you're in the bottom two thirds of the league in all the deep ball stats...

Again, those aren’t “deep ball” stats.
 

It takes 4 elements to have a strong downfield passing game: a QB who can throw the ball deep, WRs who can get behind the defense and catch the ball, an o-line who can block long enough for the play to develop, and an offensive system that schemes for these shots down the field. We arguably have none of those...

[FeelTheBurns53]

I'm pretty sure it's the two games cam started this season that's dragging those numbers down 

[TheRed]

Moore is a beast, if you're still trashing the guy you don't know football. To a degree you can be critical of Samuel but also realistic given the situation. We've been borderline abysmal at times in the deep passing game. Obviously we had the long touchdown to Moore against the Saints, but before that you could count on one hand how many 30+ yard completions we had over the previous month. Have people forgotten seeing all those pass attempts at or behind the line or scrimmage? Until we can show we are capable of consistently making defenses pay deep the better teams will give us a run for our money or worse yet wipe the field with us altogether.

[Car123]

6 minutes ago, FeelTheBurns53 said:

I'm pretty sure it's the two games cam started this season that's dragging those numbers down 

Curtis Samuel's only deep ball reception was from Cam

[Eazy-E]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't know about 500 more yards, but his stats would definitely look considerably better.

360 yards is a rough estimate of the potential yardage just from the twitter video I posted.

Factor in another 2 or 3 deep balls Allen has missed that I can think of plus some of the short and intermediate routes and 500 yards isn't that far-fetched. 

The threat of Cmc should be allowing DJ and Samuel to blow the top off of defenses. Yes the offensive line stinks but you gotta be able to take advantage of our speedy receivers deep.

The deep ball to Moore on Sunday was even under thrown but he luckily had enough separation to adjust and make the catch.