Thoughts on a Josh Rosen Draft Day Trade

[LinvilleGorge]

17 minutes ago, ncfan said:

His arm strength, his size, his tools are known.

Of course he's looked like trash

Put Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Rogers, etc in Arizona last year and in Miami this you get the same result.

 

Faulting him for not looking good in a trash situation where vets are telling my agents to "get me out of this organization".  Where their, OL, WR, TE, RB is worst of the worst that this organization has ever seen.  Yeah of course he's going to look bad.

Grier was drafted to be a backup in this league, Rosen was not.  Rosen has been in situations that he's probably begging to be in Will Grier's spot here.

Grier and Rosen had the same Combine throwing velocity. Just saying.

I think you're way more emotionally invested in this one than me. You're kinda coming off the rails claiming that MVP candidates would look as bad as Josh Rosen in the same situation. That's just absurd.

[Carl Spackler]

Grier throws a hell of a deep ball, don’t think he could do that if he had a weak arm (which no one with football knowledge has ever leveled at him).

[ncfan]

47 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Grier and Rosen had the same Combine throwing velocity. Just saying.

I think you're way more emotionally invested in this one than me. You're kinda coming off the rails claiming that MVP candidates would look as bad as Josh Rosen in the same situation. That's just absurd.

Curious to where you saw the same velocity #'s

But the film you can tell a significant difference.  Any ball over 30ish yards Grier lofts it exactly like Allen.  While Rosen puts it on a rope with nice push.

 

Those lofts Grier throws getting easily picked, easy defensed.  And NFL WRs out run them.  Rosen doesn't throw it like that.

Not emotional attached to either player, just going off film, scouting reports, etc.  Seems your more attached to the local product.

 

 

And im not coming off the rails by saying any QB in this league woupd look bad behind a OL that the organization manufactured for a pure tank consisting of guys that would be PS players across the league. and same with RBs/WRs.  A team where vets are begging their agents to get off of.   You have to take the glasses off if you think any QB can succeed there.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, ncfan said:

Curious to where you saw the same velocity #'s

But the film you can tell a significant difference.  Any ball over 30ish yards Grier lofts it exactly like Allen.  While Rosen puts it on a rope with nice push.

 

Those lofts Grier throws getting easily picked, easy defensed.  And NFL WRs out run them.  Rosen doesn't throw it like that.

Not emotional attached to either player, just going off film, scouting reports, etc.  Seems your nore attached to the local product.

I'm willing to give Rosen a little leeway but I think he needs to sit for a couple years based on how he has played, and given our other QBs, it doesn't seem like he is a good fit here because of that.  We need a starter next year if Cam isn't healthy, and if he is, we don't need Rosen at all.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Grier throws a hell of a deep ball, don’t think he could do that if he had a weak arm (which no one with football knowledge has ever leveled at him).

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/will-grier?id=32194752-4902-2415-512e-3cae73b00f0f

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Average arm talent

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019wgrier.php

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Lacks arm strength

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/will-grier

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Doesn’t have the velocity or arm strength to test tight windows deep down the field.

Natural arm talent only modest, which is compounded by his free lancing style of play.

Overall ability to drive the football with plus velocity is modest but he gets enough on it but certainly not a strength.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/23/film-room-scouting-report-will-grier-west-virginia

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My biggest concern with Grier is his arm strength.

 

[JARROD]

Yeh, I that guy should be on a practice squad

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Curious to where you saw the same velocity #'s

But the film you can tell a significant difference.  Any ball over 30ish yards Grier lofts it exactly like Allen.  While Rosen puts it on a rope with nice push.

 

Those lofts Grier throws getting easily picked, easy defensed.  And NFL WRs out run them.  Rosen doesn't throw it like that.

Not emotional attached to either player, just going off film, scouting reports, etc.  Seems your more attached to the local product.

 

 

And im not coming off the rails by saying any QB in this league woupd look bad behind a OL that the organization manufactured for a pure tank consisting of guys that would be PS players across the league. and same with RBs/WRs.  A team where vets are begging their agents to get off of.   You have to take the glasses off if you think any QB can succeed there.

I'm not saying Rosen is in a good situation, but that offensive roster situation sounds like what Cam Newton played with for most of his career. Elite quarterbacks make everyone look better. Average QBs expose everyone for what they truly are. Subpar QBs make everyone look worse.

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

[SOJA]

would trade a fifth or later for him for sure. He's got great talent, not sure about his heart though

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not saying Rosen is in a good situation, but that offensive roster situation sounds like what Cam Newton played with for most of his career. Elite quarterbacks make everyone look better. Average QBs expose everyone for what they truly are. Subpar QBs make everyone look worse.

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

I guess velocity is kind of meaningless since Grier is higher than Pat Mahomes... and much higher than Watson.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I guess velocity is kind of meaningless since Grier is higher than Pat Mahomes... and much higher than Watson.

It tells you how hard a guy can throw the ball when there's no defense or anything else to worry about. Kinda like running a 40 tells you how fast a guy can run in a straight line in shorts and a t-shirt with nothing else to worry about. Sometimes it translates to the football field and sometimes it doesn't.

What makes guys like Mahomes special is it seems like they can generate the same type of velocity no matter what - on the run, fading backwards, throwing across their bodies, it just seems like they can sling it the same no matter what.

[rayzor]

Just no.

[Carl Spackler]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/will-grier?id=32194752-4902-2415-512e-3cae73b00f0f

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019wgrier.php

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/will-grier

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/23/film-room-scouting-report-will-grier-west-virginia

 

How do you explain his ability to like, uh, you know, complete deep passes if his arm is as weak as Allen’s

[Carl Spackler]

3 hours ago, ncfan said:

Curious to where you saw the same velocity #'s

But the film you can tell a significant difference.  Any ball over 30ish yards Grier lofts it exactly like Allen.  While Rosen puts it on a rope with nice push.

 

Those lofts Grier throws getting easily picked, easy defensed.  And NFL WRs out run them.  Rosen doesn't throw it like that  

Not very easily picked or defensed as it were  https://youtu.be/v7lwAImrSb8

[Carl Spackler]

Josh Rosen’s arm strength is below average https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-rosen?id=3219524f-5335-7433-3207-a02a4e884405