Tyler Larsen vs Matt Paradis

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

Go back and look at all of Hurney's hits in the 1st round.  

If Burns is an OLB, Hurney will have drafted 4 linebackers in the 1st round, and two RB's.  6 of 11 first round selections have been two of the easiest positions to project to the NFL from college.

The harder positions like OT, QB, CB, DE, WR, DT he has been pretty good on, but only drafted 5 of each those in his time here, and the jury is still out on the WR that was chosen.

That's a pretty valid point.

[My Goodness My Guinness]

6 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Go back and look at all of Hurney's hits in the 1st round.  

If Burns is an OLB, Hurney will have drafted 4 linebackers in the 1st round, and two RB's.  6 of 11 first round selections have been two of the easiest positions to project to the NFL from college.

The harder positions like OT, QB, CB, DE, WR, DT he has been pretty good on, but only drafted 5 of each those in his time here, and the jury is still out on the WR that was chosen.

You do have to give it to him with the Cam and Luke picks. Those weren't exactly guarantees. Sure Luke was going to be a starter no matter what, but he has turned out to be one of the best of all time and Cam revolutionized the QB position and outlasted his dual-threat counterparts like Kap and RG3. 

[thefuzz]

Just now, My Goodness My Guinness said:

You do have to give it to him with the Cam and Luke picks. Those weren't exactly guarantees. Sure Luke was going to be a starter no matter what, but he has turned out to be one of the best of all time and Cam revolutionized the QB position and outlasted his dual-threat counterparts like Kap and RG3. 

Didn't take anything away from him for those picks, just pointing out he prefers to go with an easier position to project vs. the harder ones most of the time.

It's why he seems to have so many "hits" in the 1st.

 

[mc52beast]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Mother of...

I never in a million years thought we'd stick him at left tackle. The fact that a group of professional coaches went into the season thinking that was the best option just baffles me.

Is there another FO/coaching staff that has f’d up the LT(and others)position like the Panthers have? It’s mind boggling just how long we have taken to put together a competitive o-line

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Is there another FO/coaching staff that has f’d up the LT(and others)position like the Panthers have? It’s mind boggling just how long we have taken to put together a competitive o-line

We had a very competitive O-Line in 2015.

I don't think we're historically bad at left tackle. We had Gross for a long time. Heck, it wasn't that long ago we had Michael Oher. Nobody seems to remember him but he was here.

I'd say the reason we've gone so long just treading water is because we had two head coaches who were basically the same guy. Both defensive coaches who put their priorities on the other side of the ball and felt the offense needed only to do just enough.

Until we hire somebody with a different mindset, this is what you're gonna get.

[DeAngelo Beason]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Flip that around though.

I've said before that it's relatively easy to take a look at a player and see how good they are right now. Unfortunately, that's not all there is to it.

You also have to try and predict how well they'll go from being a college student to a paid professional making millions. You have to wonder about the influences that affect them. And even if those things are positive, how long can they stay good? Plus what about injuries? Can anyone really predict how much wear and tear a particular body can take?

Being a professional coach / GM is an incredibly difficult job. You're tasked with doing some things that are darn near impossible to do.

But that's the job.

And as it is with pretty much any other job, there are people who are good at it and there are people who are not.

The ones who are not don't get to keep their jobs using the excuse that it's difficult.

It's harsh, unkind and unfair oh, but that's how it is. You make millions if you succeed, and sometimes even if you don't. That's a big reason why you take on something that's impossible.

I see what you're saying, but I think you're drastically oversimplifying my argument and turning it into me saying "being a GM is hard so they deserve a break".  That doesn't convey what I'm trying to say at all.  What I'm saying is that every GM does the exact same thing... they take calculated risks.  You can't say the calculated risks we took last offseason weren't good ones.

They all hit some, they all miss some.  Hurney's hit rate is about as good as anyone else's.  Belichick has PLENTY of misses in his career.  Just so happens the system they have brings out the best in their players.  The system we have brings out the worst.  That can't all be put on the GM.  If the system sucks, it sucks, period.  No amount of talent at a good price is going to fix that problem.  Hurney isn't drawing up the playbook or making the playcalls.

[DeAngelo Beason]

2 hours ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

You are right. This may have been the most applauded off-season in recent memory. I even gave Hurney his due. 

But look at us now. This team has holes everywhere (literally in run defense). I really want to blame Hurney for this but the talent seems to be there. I think the coaching staff is the primary cause for the lack of performance. 

This is the exact thing I'm arguing.  Hurney brought in some damn good players on some really good contracts.  The talent has been squandered by poor coaching and poor scheme.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I see what you're saying, but I think you're drastically oversimplifying my argument and turning it into me saying "being a GM is hard so they deserve a break".  That doesn't convey what I'm trying to say at all.  What I'm saying is that every GM does the exact same thing... they take calculated risks.  You can't say the calculated risks we took last offseason weren't good ones.

They all hit some, they all miss some.  Hurney's hit rate is about as good as anyone else's.  Belichick has PLENTY of misses in his career.  Just so happens the system they have brings out the best in their players.  The system we have brings out the worst.  That can't all be put on the GM.  If the system sucks, it sucks, period.  No amount of talent at a good price is going to fix that problem.  Hurney isn't drawing up the playbook or making the playcalls.

I don't determine the hit rate by looking at the individual players.

I determine the hit rate by whether our total roster is good enough to win games.

Yes, coaching matters, but the coach and the GM work together. That's why I believe you have to evaluate them together.

This combo isn't good enough. The last combo with Hurney wasn't good enough either. The combo of Gettleman and Rivera was better but still didn't ultimately bring home a championship and is no longer a viable option.

Time to burn it all down and start over.

[DeAngelo Beason]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't determine the hit rate by looking at the individual players.

I determine the hit rate by whether our total roster is good enough to win games.

Yes, coaching matters, but the coach and the GM work together. That's why I believe you have to evaluate them together.

This combo isn't good enough. The last combo with Hurney wasn't good enough either. The combo of Gettleman and Rivera was better but still didn't ultimately bring home a championship and is no longer a viable option.

Time to burn it all down and start over.

We can agree on that last sentence.  I don't think it'd be smart to bring in a new coach without a new GM, regardless of how well or poorly either of them has performed.

[thefuzz]

6 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I see what you're saying, but I think you're drastically oversimplifying my argument and turning it into me saying "being a GM is hard so they deserve a break".  That doesn't convey what I'm trying to say at all.  What I'm saying is that every GM does the exact same thing... they take calculated risks.  You can't say the calculated risks we took last offseason weren't good ones.

They all hit some, they all miss some.  Hurney's hit rate is about as good as anyone else's.  Belichick has PLENTY of misses in his career.  Just so happens the system they have brings out the best in their players.  The system we have brings out the worst.  That can't all be put on the GM.  If the system sucks, it sucks, period.  No amount of talent at a good price is going to fix that problem.  Hurney isn't drawing up the playbook or making the playcalls.

If you believe that coaching is what has really hampered Marty's success, why did he hire said coach, keep said coach, and continue to keep said coach?

These two are married, joined at the hip, a pair....or whatever you want to call them.  

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, DeAngelo Beason said:

We can agree on that last sentence.  I don't think it'd be smart to bring in a new coach without a new GM, regardless of how well or poorly either of them has performed.

I actually just wrote a whole thread on that.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

If you believe that coaching is what has really hampered Marty's success, why did he hire said coach, keep said coach, and continue to keep said coach?

These two are married, joined at the hip, a pair....or whatever you want to call them.  

And let's not forget, fell on the sword to save his job.

[DeAngelo Beason]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

If you believe that coaching is what has really hampered Marty's success, why did he hire said coach, keep said coach, and continue to keep said coach?

These two are married, joined at the hip, a pair....or whatever you want to call them.  

Fair point.  No debating that one.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

And let's not forget, fell on the sword to save his job.

Strange relationship between those two for sure.