Tepper needs to take some responsibility.

[PanthersBigD]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

Have you ever owned a business?

Have you ever purchased a business, that came with employees, from someone else?

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, PanthersBigD said:

You're overreacting because you're thinking like an irrational football fan, not as a business owner. It's natural; I've been screaming for Rivera's firing myself, but the rational side of me understands you don't just come into a business and blow it up until you understand it. This is the first full season Tepper has had control of the Panthers. I believe he'll replace both guys this off-season, now that he understands this business better, and has had a full off-season and regular season to evaluate their performance. 

I'm not overreacting, not in the slightest.  I don't post in game day threads, you won't hear me bellyaching about how bad Jackson or Allen played yesterday....mostly because it's not surprising at all.  Throwing away another season is exactly what I expected this season, and it's what we have in front of us.

But to say that Tepper deserves NO blame, in any way, for any of this, is just hard for me to grasp.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, PanthersBigD said:

Have you ever purchased a business, that came with employees, from someone else?

Yes, why?

[SmokinwithWilly]

My guess is both Ron and Marty went to Tepper and said JR kept meddling with the team and to give them a chance. It's been 2 years now. I think the writing's on the wall.

[Anybodyhome]

In my opinion, Tepper needed a full season to see the team in action. Remember, he had to order the benching of Cam before the last 2 games of last season and he'd actually been playing hurt for a few weeks ahead of that. So I think Tepper wanted to see this complete season for himself, with a healthy franchise player. Unfortunately, for everyone concerned, it didn't happen.

I also don't believe you fire an NFL head coach mid-season unless you have a solid interim in mind. There is no solid interim HC in Charlotte. Not today, last year or next month. He doesn't exist in this franchise, so firing Ron during the season would only make a bad situation worse. 

Today, I cannot blame Tepper for the mess this team is in. However, if nothing changes between February and the draft...

[TheMostInterestingMan]

15 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Have you ever owned a business?

Been self employed for about 6 years now, but I don’t have any employees under me. However, I HAVE worked in situations that will allow me to paint my position more clearly for you.

Lets say you work at a brick and mortar retail store and a new GM rolls into town. He’s come here because your two store managers, let’s call the Ronny and Mart, have been running an underperforming store lately. 

He comes and and has two options. Do I fire these guys day one or give them a chance to succeed again after me stepping in? Sure they have underperformed the last two years, but a few years ago they had one of the best sales records in company history.

So you give them another chance as a sensible GM to prove they can get this store going back in the right direction. And sure enough! Q1 sales are doing great! But then the state comes through and has to do road work RIGHT IN FRONT of your store for the next 6 months. Construction is happening right on Newton street and there’s no parking readily available. You are losing customers but this is out of Ronny and Marts control. They can’t help that the city decided to start this construction now and all you can do is roll with the punches. 

End of year sales are down. What started off looking like a great sales year turned out to be a bust because of the Newton street construction that lasted 6 months.

So again you have a decision to make. Fire Ronny and Mart or give them one more chance. You are making this decision based on two key pieces of information. Q1 was looking like a great start to a profitable year and end of year sales are down because of something out of everyone’s hands.

After carefully considering the options you sit down with Ronny and Mart and say “look, as the new GM I have high expectations for my stores. And this year we didn’t reach our goals. But I understand that judging you based on the Newton St construction isn’t very fair. And you were performing to my expectations before the construction began. This year I expect you to meet your goals. I’m giving you one last chance because I want to see you succeed here. But if we don’t meet our goals, I’m going to have to bring people into this position that I feel confident will be able to reach these goals. I think this fair and we have a clear understanding moving forward”

Does this make sense? Does this sound more reasonable than the angry GM who comes in firing everyone based on performance under previous regimes? I mean, come on. You are frustrated. But Tepper legit hasn’t done much wrong so far. Not really anything at all that I can see.

[PanthersBigD]

16 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Yes, why?

Did you fire them all on the spot or take time to evaluate them? Was it a billion dollar purchase with a complex management structure? You and I are chatting on a football message board during the middle of the day, so probably not. 

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, PanthersBigD said:

Did you fire them all on the spot or take time to evaluate them? Was it a billion dollar purchase with a complex management structure? You and I are chatting on a football message board during the middle of the day, so probably not. 

I looked at the books, knew where the problem child was, and made sure it was my first order of business as soon as I took over.  I had to make money, I couldn't worry about feelings, being "the new guy in town", etc.....

However that's the difference between normal business and the NFL.  Tepper is going to make money either way, he could afford to take his time, to not step on toes, etc......however that patience, and his delaying the inevitable has put the team in this situation again.....just another mid round draft pick with little to nothing to show for said season other than some CMC records.

Tepper could have looked at the books as soon as he walked in the door and seen that Ron and Marty were lacking...he didn't, or was satisfied with what he saw.  I'm not.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I looked at the books, knew where the problem child was, and made sure it was my first order of business as soon as I took over.  I had to make money, I couldn't worry about feelings, being "the new guy in town", etc.....

However that's the difference between normal business and the NFL.  Tepper is going to make money either way, he could afford to take his time, to not step on toes, etc......however that patience, and his delaying the inevitable has put the team in this situation again.....just another mid round draft pick with little to nothing to show for said season other than some CMC records.

Tepper could have looked at the books as soon as he walked in the door and seen that Ron and Marty were lacking...he didn't, or was satisfied with what he saw.  I'm not.

Very noble. Perhaps you should take over his hedge fund and the football team then. Clearly your accolades show a much bigger drive to win and succeed than does Tepper’s...

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Very noble. Perhaps you should take over his hedge fund and the football team then. Clearly your accolades show a much bigger drive to win and succeed than does Tepper’s...

Nah, I'm good.  Got enough on my plate.

Do I think that Tepper can fix this issue?  Yes, I just wish he would have done so in time to salvage Cam Newton.

[PanthersBigD]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I looked at the books, knew where the problem child was, and made sure it was my first order of business as soon as I took over.  I had to make money, I couldn't worry about feelings, being "the new guy in town", etc.....

However that's the difference between normal business and the NFL.  Tepper is going to make money either way, he could afford to take his time, to not step on toes, etc......however that patience, and his delaying the inevitable has put the team in this situation again.....just another mid round draft pick with little to nothing to show for said season other than some CMC records.

Tepper could have looked at the books as soon as he walked in the door and seen that Ron and Marty were lacking...he didn't, or was satisfied with what he saw.  I'm not.

Fair, but you're not working with the same information that he is. All you know is what you hear/see filtered through sports media and what's on the field on game day. I don't like the current product either, but I don't blame Tepper for taking his time. I actually prefer it long term. I would imagine he's got a team doing the necessary due diligence to select a new head coach and GM. All we can do this season is wait and see. 

[Davidson Deac II]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Nah, I'm good.  Got enough on my plate.

Do I think that Tepper can fix this issue?  Yes, I just wish he would have done so in time to salvage Cam Newton.

What would you consider fixing the issue?  If he fires Rivera, and we go 11-5 next year, and win a playoff game, is the issue fixed?  Or do we have to win a Superbowl?  

I saw in one of the other threads some said that you can't compare a NFL team to a normal business.  I agree, primarily because to be successful is so difficult.  In normal businesses, one has to make a profit and try to follow the rules/laws to be successful.  In the NFL, most conisder successful to be winning a Superbowl.  Which means that only 1 in 32 teams is successful in any given year.  Of course, its not quite that black and white, but I would guarantee that if whatever new coach we hire doesn't win the big game within 3-5 years, most here will consider him unsuccessful even if he wins a few division championships.  

[jbland]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Marty Hurney was 97-111 as a GM going I to this season. Why was that not analyzed prior to him being retained?

Hurney sucks. Always has always will. He’s kryptonite to this franchise. As soon as he leaves we will start winning again. Mark my words. 

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Davidson Deac II said:

What would you consider fixing the issue?  If he fires Rivera, and we go 11-5 next year, and win a playoff game, is the issue fixed?  Or do we have to win a Superbowl?  

I saw in one of the other threads some said that you can't compare a NFL team to a normal business.  I agree, primarily because to be successful is so difficult.  In normal businesses, one has to make a profit and try to follow the rules/laws to be successful.  In the NFL, most conisder successful to be winning a Superbowl.  Which means that only 1 in 32 teams is successful in any given year.  Of course, its not quite that black and white, but I would guarantee that if whatever new coach we hire doesn't win the big game within 3-5 years, most here will consider him unsuccessful even if he wins a few division championships.  

Successful?  Seattle or Pittsburgh.

That's what I would call successful in this league.  Consistent winning, something this franchise has been allergic to.

Being competitive in your division, winning a playoff game every year or two, making the playoffs 60+% of the time.....those type things.