Greg Little sucked and Kyle with a clean pocket

[CRA]

Phillip Rivers has 7 INTs in the last 2 games.  The NFL isn't easy.   Guys hit bad stretches.  Veterans.  HOF types. 

Allen is a backup thrust into a starting gig and is 23.   He has seen very little. 

Kyle Allen at this stage in the season should be facing some struggles.  It isn't the end of the world.  How he comes out in the late stretch will show a lot.  Teams are gameplanning him now because of film....and I can sit at home and call a lot of the pass plays so you know defenders are all over it. 

[micnificent28]

From a panthers fan who scouts for a living. Allen just isn't it folks. 

[micnificent28]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Phillip Rivers has 7 INTs in the last 2 games.  The NFL isn't easy.   Guy hit bad stretches. 

Kyle Allen at this stage in the season should be facing some struggles.  It isn't the end of the world.  How he comes out in the late stretch will show a lot.  Teams are gameplanning him now because of film....and I can sit at home and call a lot of the pass plays so you know defenders are all over it. 

Or he just sucks. Kind of like the truth. 

 

 

[CRA]

56 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Or he just sucks. Kind of like the truth. 

 

 

Lot of players suck year 1.   Lot of players we have loved here have sucked year 1.  

But we should stick w/ him for the moment. 

I do want to see Grier this season at some point. 

[micnificent28]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Lot of players suck year 1.  

Come on dude.he sucked everywhere he went lost jobs got beat out multiple times vs superior players. There's a reason 31 teams passed on him 7 times. And he lost his starting job at a&m and Houston where ever he went. The writing has been on the wall numerous times by different coaches. He cannot br trusted eith thr future of this team. 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Come on dude.he sucked everywhere he went lost jobs got beat out multiple times vs superior players. There's a reason 31 teams passed on him 7 times. And he lost his starting job at a&m and Houston where ever he went. The writing has been on the wall numerous times by different coaches. He cannot br trusted eith thr future of this team. 

I'm just not down for villainizing a 23 year old backup QB thrust into the starting job....who has helped us win more games than lose. 

Who is talking about trusting him for the future of this team?  I'm just rooting for us to win games right now.  

but yeah, Panthers we have loved in the past have sucked just as bad if not worse than Allen this year during their first years (and had easier jobs). You never know how things will pan out.  Which is why we watch sports to a large degree. 

[micnificent28]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I'm just not down for villainizing a 23 year old backup QB thrust into the starting job....who has helped us win more games than lose. 

Who is talking about trusting him for the future of this team?  I'm just rooting for us to win games right now.  

but yeah, Panthers we have loved in the past have sucked just as bad if not worse than Allen this year during their first years (and had easier jobs). You never know how things will pan out.  Which is why we watch sports to a large degree. 

Not disagreeing with you. That's a reasonable take. And nore do I want him to fail. He's a reasonable backup. I dont hate him in that aspect at all. I think he does have some some arm talent. He's good enough to win some battles for stretches but I dont think this situation is ideal for him nor the franchise long term.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

I'm just not down for villainizing a 23 year old backup QB thrust into the starting job....who has helped us win more games than lose.

I don't feel like saying "kyle allen is not a QB to build your franchise around" ( and variations of) is villainizing him.  Outside of the Arizona game, he's played pretty bad this season.  I am absolutely fine with him as a back up.  

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I don't feel like saying "kyle allen is not a QB to build your franchise around" ( and variations of) is villainizing him.  Outside of the Arizona game, he's played pretty bad this season.  I am absolutely fine with him as a back up.  

I don't claim those comments are villainizing him. 

But saying he sucks, he always has sucked and will always suck....is a bit much for me. 

Played pretty bad in all games but AZ? I mean, given what he is? He has played good in a lot of games.  The bar of good for Kyle Allen and Cam Newton are different bar that are set at very different heights.  A good game for Allen is different than for a Cam type.

I mean, I thought he played good in GB.  Yeah, he did some bad stuff.  But he is Kyle Allen, not Cam Newton.  I mean we should of been blown out in reality given the conditions, who we played, etc.   Tampa was a strong game for Allen too. 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

19 minutes ago, CRA said:

Played pretty bad in all games but AZ? I mean, given what he is? He has played good in a lot of games.  The bar of good for Kyle Allen and Cam Newton are different bar that are set at very different heights.  A good game for Allen is different than for a Cam type.

I mean, I thought he played good in GB.  Yeah, he did some bad stuff.  But he is Kyle Allen, not Cam Newton.  I mean we should of been blown out in reality given the conditions, who we played, etc.   Tampa was a strong game for Allen too. 

While I agree with you in an objective atmosphere.  Once the Arizona game hit these boards were full of people saying Kyle Allen > healthy Cam Newton.  That Cam Newton needed to be traded.  That even if Cam Newton came back 100% healthy, he should be benched for Kyle Allen.

Once you reach that point in a conversation, people aren't going to respond with "Kyle Allen is playing well for a back up" or look at him in the context of "they have different bars".  When people are saying he is straight up better than a *healthy* Cam, people will start comparing his positives/negatives in the exact same light.  Giving each the same bar.

The media and people on social media (twitter, here, etc) all pushed this narrative.  Now that its being shown that Kyle Allen is what a section of us thought he was..the people that have from the beginning tried pointing this out are having people jump on them again.

First it was "stop being a cam nut hugger".  Now its "he's just a UDFA back up, his bar isn't the same".  "Don't judge him on such a small sample size".  Etc.  Its like the theme for the last 2-3 months has been "you can bash Cam Newton, but don't you dare say anything negative about Kyle Allen".  And some people are just getting tired of it.  I am not saying this is you personally or anything.  Just why some people are more "aggressively anti-KA" than they probably should be.

[Fox007]

He is a backup starting and we have a trash OL just like we always have with Hurney and Ron. Did you people actually think this team was going anywhere....

He could come in later years for this team and beat like Tampa and the Dolphins if the starter is hurt...need Cam and/or a new 1st round QB. Grier can't beat KA out.....so he's not poo either and if he ever is anything it would be in a few years of development...it's Cam if healthy or a new first rounder. our QB situation is we have backups and a hurt starter...I ask again. You think we were doing anything this year? The defense is bad too....we still have Rivera lol. FFS

[Snake]

3 hours ago, mjligon said:

It also doesn’t help when your quarterback throws it to the opposing team every time we get into the red zone.

So we are at the hur der point with Allen that we ignore he's learning and not a 5 year vet. Plenty of Rookie QBs have had the same problems. He's doing too much and trying to will a bad team to victory. Maybe if our line could actually get push in the run game we are not talking about this. The red zone is where most young players struggle. I don't see why Allen haters think this is proof of anything. 

[tiger7_88]

6 hours ago, mjligon said:

Because he’s proven with a clean pocket he can be elite.

Allen, has not. 
 

It is really quite simple.

Also a lot of those collapsing pockets Newton’s size and strength enabled him to power through hands and arms grabbing him and breaking free for ground yards or completions.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Also a lot of those collapsing pockets Newton’s size and strength enabled him to power through hands and arms grabbing him and breaking free for ground yards or completions.

Which is basically a big reason why Rivera never saw the need to prioritize the offensive line.

He was counting on that.