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Why blame Marty?


Matt62881

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21 minutes ago, GoPanthers123 said:

Ian Thomas played well last year.  He should share snaps with Olsen.

I think we should be running some 2 TE sets with him and Olsen as they are Qb friendly and Ian has shown the ability to block when needed. Its still this blind Ron Faith in the incumbent, Manhertz, that kills us.

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I have to say it.  I realize how many poop emojis I'm going to get for this, but here it goes: 'Good riddance to Richardson because he's been holding Hurney an Rivera back..'  Say what you will about the scandal, but from an operations standpoint, that paraphrase captures the essence of a ton of posts here.  So it's Tepper holding the coach and GM back now?  Or was it that Richardson really did let Hurney and Rivera run the team all along (with some input of course) but ol' Jerry is no longer here to be the scapegoat for them? I'm nearly certain it's the later statement.  I'm guessing Tepper is too new to take the poo flinging just yet and Hurn-Ron don't have the deflection shield as they did with old man Richardson.  Man up guys!!!

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2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I have to say it.  I realize how many poop emojis I'm going to get for this, but here it goes: 'Good riddance to Richardson because he's been holding Hurney an Rivera back..'  Say what you will about the scandal, but from an operations standpoint, that paraphrase captures the essence of a ton of posts here.  So it's Tepper holding the coach and GM back now?  Or was it that Richardson really did let Hurney and Rivera run the team all along (with some input of course) but ol' Jerry is no longer here to be the scapegoat for them? I'm nearly certain it's the later statement.  I'm guessing Tepper is too new to take the poo flinging just yet and Hurn-Ron don't have the deflection shield as they did with old man Richardson.  Man up guys!!!

If Cam comes back, Rivera would be ok staying just because Cam is such a great leader. He gets the team pumped and ready to win and this is something Rivera has always lacked. The feeling around him is not get hype and win at all cost, its more like.....i dunno....whatever.....

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42 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

Draft:

 

  • 1st round – 24th overall – WR DJ Moore- on pace for 1200 yds, id say hes playing to the 24th overall.
  • 2nd round – 55th overall – CB Donte Jackson - Had a great 1st season for a rookie cb, is getting roasted for a bad game or 2 he is most likely playing hurt.
  • 3rd round – 85th overall (Received from Buffalo in exchange for WR Kelvin Benjamin) – DB Rashaan Gaulden- jury is still out was always a project guy who has made a few plays, would be nice to get more lut of a 3rd rd pick but i dont think its a miss until hes gone.
  • 4th round – 101st overall – TE Ian Thomas- Great snag in the 4th round, a athletically gifted TE with good hands. I dont know why we havnt seen more of him this year, i think he takes over for Greg when he retires. Unless what we saw in his first season was a fluke he is probably the panthers steal of the draft.
  • 4th round – 136th overall – DE Marquis Haynes- underweight project DE with good upside, at minimum great upside as a 3rd down rusher. Not bad for s 4th, hes had a sack or 2 this year and could finish with 4 or 5..good value.
  • 5th round – 161st overall – LB Jermaine Carter- A 5th round lb who has played good on special teams and even taken some snaps as the WLB. Has actually played well when he's been in. Good value jts the 5th round.
  • 7th round – 234th overall (Received from LAC (via Buffalo) in exchange for WR Kelvin Benjamin) – LB Andre Smith- He was a 7th round pick, maybe we should have drafted a kicker.
  • 7th round – 242nd overall – DT Kendrick Norton- another 7th round pick maybe we should have drafted a special teams guy or a place holder....doing 2019 draft next.

  Never have said anything wrong with Moore or even Burns. He just needs to eat or we need actual 3-4 DL who can stop the run and let him do what he’s best. But, for the moment, Jackson is in a sophomore slump, so to speak. He’s still going to be fine, but he’s not there yet. So not a good pick....yet. 

 If we have to wait on Gaulden any more, then we can’t have a discussion because we would have to wait on any and all of them. He CANT beat out  Colin Jones. When a trade up for Justin Reid was there for the taking. If he can’t play at all with our injuries in the secondary, what’s next?  How bad does a player have to be to make the KB trade a wash. 

   I said the same about Thomas in another thread. Just needs a chance. I put him not playing on the staff. Not him. 
 

 Haynes is no different than any other undersized edge rusher. And like Miller and Burns(for now), a liability against the run. Remember when Delaire got a couple sacks against TB and folks lost in thinking he was it. And that was all. Nothing more. 20 snaps in last two weeks combined. A backup JAG pass rusher. 
 

Carter has played 4 snaps since week 4. Basically a poor mans  AJ Klein. Backup who may develop but will probably struggle with more play. But again......nothing yet.  
 

  So where is this great improvement over before. A good WR who is worth it and a lot of questions marks that could go either way.  But Jackson and Thomas will decide it’s worth. 

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1 hour ago, Matt62881 said:
Pick 16 (16)

Brian Burns

LB/DE Florida State
6-5 250 LBS

Drafted by Panthers in the first round of the 2019 NFL Draft, Burns was an All-American out of Florida State who ranked eighth in the NCAA in sacks in 2018.

Very suprised he fell to us at 16 he was an absolute steal, if he wasnt hurt he would be in conversation for DROY.

 

Pick 5 (37)

Greg Little

T Mississippi
6-5 310 LBS
From Giants through Seahawks

Little was drafted in the second round (37th overall) of the 2019 NFL Draft. A two-time All-American, Greg Little helped Ole Miss rank fifth in the nation in passing offense in 2018.

Unfortunately concussions have derailed his rookie campaign however it does not take away from his above average play on the field. Even to play average alot of LTs take a few years and even more bust. Id say Hurney was right on this one.

 

Pick 37 (100)

Will Grier

QB West Virginia
6-1 220 LBS
Compensatory Selection

Grier was drafted by Carolina in the third round (100th) overall of the 2019 Draft. He was a finalist for the Heisman Trophy in 2018 and an All-American. He threw for 37 touchdowns in 2018, ranking second in the NCAA in touchdowns per game. A local native, Grier went to Davidson Day School just outside of Charlotte.

I didnt like this pick when it was made as i was dying to get a FS early in the draft and one had fallen, i dont remember who. What i jave seen of the kid he truly looks like a 3rd to 5th rd rookie, the game is still fast for him and he has a hard time with progressions. Possibly taken early but none of us honestly know what we have. Jury is out until he plays more or is cut.

 

Pick 13 (115)

Christian Miller

LB/DE Alabama
6-3 245 LBS

Drafted in the fourth round (115th overall) of the 2019 NFL Draft, Miller played at Alabama where he won a national championship in 2017. In 2018, Miller totaled 36 tackles, including 11.5 tackles for loss, 8.5 sacks and team-high 12 hurries. Miller is originally from Columbia, S.C.

Alot like marquise haynes but i feel he has more upside. He is a project but the snaps he has been given havnt been wasted. Guys like this are excellent value and i love them on passing downs and toward the end of games when they are rested. I love the Nascar package so i like the pick, good value in the 4th.

Pick 16 (154)

Jordan Scarlett

RB Florida
5-11 210 LBS

Drafted in the fifth round (154th overall) out of Florida, Scarlett had 776 rushing yards and five touchdowns in his senior season in 2018. He finished his career with 1,846 rushing yards and 12 touchdowns.

I thought this was a great value pick at the time but also possibly a bpa luxury pick. Hea behind CMC and Bonnofan, it would be amazing if we ever get to see what the kid has. Though i like him and think hes a good back I wish we had went with almost any other position.

 

Round 6

 
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Pick 40 (212)

Dennis Daley

T South Carolina
6-6 325 LBS
Compensatory Selection - From 49ers through Broncos

Drafted in the sixth round (212th overall) in the 2019 NFL Draft, Daley started 23 of his last 24 games at South Carolina. Was invited to the Senior Bowl after the 2018 season.

This is the steal of the Panthers 2019 draft. A LT that can come out as a rookie from the 6th round and hold his own...wow, this cant happen very often. Between him Moton and Little by next year barring anymore injuries i think our tackles are set. Bye D williams and hello 2020 Gs, and Centers.

 

Round 7

 
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Pick 23 (237)

Terry Godwin

WR Georgia
5-11 185 LBS
From Texans through Broncos

Godwin was drafted in the seventh round (237th overall) of the 2019 NFL Draft. A four-year receiver at Georgia, Godwin finished his career with 1,800 receiving yards and 11 receiving touchdowns.

This one hurts, i think Hurney nailed this pick and then whiffed for who knows why. The kid showed he had talent, hand, speed, and vision. Was drafted in the 7th as a return specialist and i feel he would still be our best option. Oh well another hair brained mistake as he joins Butker as late round guys that should have been kept but this one wasn't as expensive.

Overall two excellent drafts, give him a 3rd this good and our starting talent and depth for the most part will look good.

  Don’t really want to do this year’s draft. I’ve already discussed Burns who will be fine in right role. But whatever.. 

  I can’t even discuss Little. I’m scared too death for that kid right now. I cringe when I see him and it has nothing to do with his ability to play LT. Another one this year and who knows how it plays out. 
 

   Just don’t see where he, or Daley have proven anything. Both have looked good and bad. Trading up for Little was unnecessary. Then compounded by wasting a pick on a QB instead of Chauncey Gardner Johnson. Instead we handed him to the Saints. 
 

  Miller is basically Haynes and hasn’t played a snap since week 5. Scarlett is on a milk carton. 
 

So you have two first round picks and a lot of “hope”. Sounds vaguely familiar. 

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Agree that Hurney shouldn't be getting the blame. I liked the free agent signings he did that weren't ridiculous, overpaid contracts. He only gave Williams a 1 year deal to see if he could be like his pro-bowl caliber self, which unfortunately he has been the exact opposite (good news is we can move on from that shitshow after this season). The Paradis deal seemed like a good one if he could get completely healthy since we had to replace Kalil and he was the best available option - unfortunately he hasn't panned out this year. It's hard to judge the draft picks since we aren't far along into their careers, but the only 2 picks of his I have hated were Gaulden and Grier, and Grier I can at least understand since Cam had injury concerns.

The problem is our team seems unfocused and lacks energy week in and week out, which is equal parts blame to the players and coaching staff. We have just gotten into a state of complacency knowing that if we can go 6-10 to 8-8, their jobs are safe apparently.

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2 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Never have said anything wrong with Moore or even Burns. He just needs to eat or we need actual 3-4 DL who can stop the run and let him do what he’s best. But, for the moment, Jackson is in a sophomore slump, so to speak. He’s still going to be fine, but he’s not there yet. So not a good pick....yet. 

 If we have to wait on Gaulden any more, then we can’t have a discussion because we would have to wait on any and all of them. He CANT beat out  Colin Jones. When a trade up for Justin Reid was there for the taking. If he can’t play at all with our injuries in the secondary, what’s next?  How bad does a player have to be to make the KB trade a wash. 

   I said the same about Thomas in another thread. Just needs a chance. I put him not playing on the staff. Not him. 
 

 Haynes is no different than any other undersized edge rusher. And like Miller and Burns(for now), a liability against the run. Remember when Delaire got a couple sacks against TB and folks lost in thinking he was it. And that was all. Nothing more. 20 snaps in last two weeks combined. A backup JAG pass rusher. 
 

Carter has played 4 snaps since week 4. Basically a poor mans  AJ Klein. Backup who may develop but will probably struggle with more play. But again......nothing yet.  
 

  So where is this great improvement over before. A good WR who is worth it and a lot of questions marks that could go either way.  But Jackson and Thomas will decide it’s worth. 

Thing is alot of these guys you are calling jags are very young and mario addison was just like them at one point. Delaire had one game and never got another pressure i dont put them in the same category. Haynes, obada ect havnt played many snaps because we use them more on 3rd down and when we are winning, last 2 weeks have been unfortunate. Also the big thing is run D and our guys proved we could stop it with proper gap control, its more discipline then personel and I squarely put the loss on offense this time, the D had a few hiccups but some of it was scheme like julio vs keek. Also common with the Donte hate he played excellent earlier in the year before the groin thing, he will return to form.

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2 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Don’t really want to do this year’s draft. I’ve already discussed Burns who will be fine in right role. But whatever.. 

  I can’t even discuss Little. I’m scared too death for that kid right now. I cringe when I see him and it has nothing to do with his ability to play LT. Another one this year and who knows how it plays out. 
 

   Just don’t see where he, or Daley have proven anything. Both have looked good and bad. Trading up for Little was unnecessary. Then compounded by wasting a pick on a QB instead of Chauncey Gardner Johnson. Instead we handed him to the Saints. 
 

  Miller is basically Haynes and hasn’t played a snap since week 5. Scarlett is on a milk carton. 
 

So you have two first round picks and a lot of “hope”. Sounds vaguely familiar. 

But getting any play out of guys past the first round is good much more so flashes of them being good. Look at another teams draft and tell me whos done alot better. Young guys usually go through alot transitioning into the NFL, getting multiple sacks in your first year is impressive. I completely agree on chauncey Gardner but i am happy with the rest of the draft. Little and Daley have looked more good then bad, once again impressive for rooks...and having any hope for players past the 3rd is nice...hope is good bro lol. You have to admit the ceiling for this team is high with the flashes.

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2 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Never have said anything wrong with Moore or even Burns. He just needs to eat or we need actual 3-4 DL who can stop the run and let him do what he’s best. But, for the moment, Jackson is in a sophomore slump, so to speak. He’s still going to be fine, but he’s not there yet. So not a good pick....yet. 

 If we have to wait on Gaulden any more, then we can’t have a discussion because we would have to wait on any and all of them. He CANT beat out  Colin Jones. When a trade up for Justin Reid was there for the taking. If he can’t play at all with our injuries in the secondary, what’s next?  How bad does a player have to be to make the KB trade a wash. 

   I said the same about Thomas in another thread. Just needs a chance. I put him not playing on the staff. Not him. 
 

 Haynes is no different than any other undersized edge rusher. And like Miller and Burns(for now), a liability against the run. Remember when Delaire got a couple sacks against TB and folks lost in thinking he was it. And that was all. Nothing more. 20 snaps in last two weeks combined. A backup JAG pass rusher. 
 

Carter has played 4 snaps since week 4. Basically a poor mans  AJ Klein. Backup who may develop but will probably struggle with more play. But again......nothing yet.  
 

  So where is this great improvement over before. A good WR who is worth it and a lot of questions marks that could go either way.  But Jackson and Thomas will decide it’s worth. 

I will say one thing from all this i wanted reid bad, i am very much for trading up and getting quality over quantity.

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21 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

Thing is alot of these guys you are calling jags are very young and mario addison was just like them at one point. Delaire had one game and never got another pressure i dont put them in the same category. Haynes, obada ect havnt played many snaps because we use them more on 3rd down and when we are winning, last 2 weeks have been unfortunate. Also the big thing is run D and our guys proved we could stop it with proper gap control, its more discipline then personel and I squarely put the loss on offense this time, the D had a few hiccups but some of it was scheme like julio vs keek. Also common with the Donte hate he played excellent earlier in the year before the groin thing, he will return to form.

   First rule. Don’t compare guys to the exceptions. Why is it Addison instead of the aforementioned Delaire. There are a lot more Delaire’s than Mario’a. 
 

  The only thing proven is when committing more people to stop the run, like we did, leads to big plays in the passing game. Against What string RB was that again. Stuff that Practice squadder.  This personnel never fit a 3-4 Hybrid. And then leave yourself with only Obama to play SDE in a 4-3. Nobody on this team played in a 3-4 at 5 tech before. Went way to heavy on pass rush. I guess if you want a happy ending, it depends on when you stop the story. 

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20 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

But getting any play out of guys past the first round is good much more so flashes of them being good. Look at another teams draft and tell me whos done alot better. Young guys usually go through alot transitioning into the NFL, getting multiple sacks in your first year is impressive. I completely agree on chauncey Gardner but i am happy with the rest of the draft. Little and Daley have looked more good then bad, once again impressive for rooks...and having any hope for players past the 3rd is nice...hope is good bro lol. You have to admit the ceiling for this team is high with the flashes.

Using whatever “Sunshine and Puppies” scenario or criteria you’re using to prop up these guys, I could make Matt Millen drafts look like the 1974 Steelers draft. 
 

  What is a high ceiling in flashes? You mean the pass rush and  turnovers that led to our 4-game win streak. That’s looking much more like the anomaly the numbers said it was 
 

 

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7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   First rule. Don’t compare guys to the exceptions. Why is it Addison instead of the aforementioned Delaire. There are a lot more Delaire’s than Mario’a. 
 

  The only thing proven is when committing more people to stop the run, like we did, leads to big plays in the passing game. Against What string RB was that again. Stuff that Practice squadder.  This personnel never fit a 3-4 Hybrid. And then leave yourself with only Obama to play SDE in a 4-3. Nobody on this team played in a 3-4 at 5 tech before. Went way to heavy on pass rush. I guess if you want a happy ending, it depends on when you stop the story. 

We were thin on 34 DEs and depended on them staying healthy and KK went down. This is the mistake if Hurney made one, the 34 Des cant keep keek clean or poe isnt picking up his double teams but you cant expect Marty to be perfect, I think he did a good job for what he had and its not like the coaches didn't spring the 34 on him. Its a good possibility if a 330 to 350 pd NT is there who is elite on draft night he might fix our D. Free up keek without any extra blitzers. With the secondary except for pass deflections the camera doesn't zoom on them so you see the bad almost only. The secondary hasnt been as bad and if vern would play his gaps better we would be fine against the run. And another thing the way we have been playing our gaps the holes that had been created a high school running back could hit. We closed those gaps this week, that's a improvement.

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