In hindsight, should Rivera/Hurney have been retained for the 2019 season.

[musicman]

Dang, I hope all your bosses aren't this critical of all of you or half of you would have been fired and unemployed. Nobody's perfect. Hurney 2.0 has proved to be much better. He's not shrewd making these risky deals but mostly solid moves. RR is a leader and a proven winner. Does he make wrong/bad decision, yeah but who doesn't. Look at Sean McVay, last year everybody wanted him and this year he looks "mortal". RR held it together for the last 3 years with no support from ownership (scandal), no President or GM for a little while and injuries (both LT at the start of the year, etc) and no real players around Cam even going back to 2015 (that was all Cam). He lost some of his top coaches that ran the defense. Has he been great, no, but better then most considering the hand he's dealt with. This year what I think is wrong with the defense is they lost the heart and soul in TD. Luke has expressed several times how much he misses him and he doesn't look the same out there. They fed off each other. 

Tepper has expressed he's a patient guy (coming from the Steelers) so where is everybody getting he's gonna clean house. To be 5-4 with a back up QB is pretty good. It still comes down to players making plays more than about coaching. Cam in 2015 is that example. 

Maybe because i know RR more than most (not close, just know) so I feel this way but to see what he and the organization had to go through over the last few years is not easy. He may not be a top 10 coach but he may be top 15 and I'm not sure we can get better. Do you think Kyle Shanahan is a genius? I could look good with 5 1st round picks on my defensive line too. It's players making plays too.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, musicman said:

Dang, I hope all your bosses aren't this critical of all of you or half of you would have been fired and unemployed. Nobody's perfect. Hurney 2.0 has proved to be much better. He's not shrewd making these risky deals but mostly solid moves. RR is a leader and a proven winner. Does he make wrong/bad decision, yeah but who doesn't. Look at Sean McVay, last year everybody wanted him and this year he looks "mortal". RR held it together for the last 3 years with no support from ownership (scandal), no President or GM for a little while and injuries (both LT at the start of the year, etc) and no real players around Cam even going back to 2015 (that was all Cam). He lost some of his top coaches that ran the defense. Has he been great, no, but better then most considering the hand he's dealt with. This year what I think is wrong with the defense is they lost the heart and soul in TD. Luke has expressed several times how much he misses him and he doesn't look the same out there. They fed off each other. 

Tepper has expressed he's a patient guy (coming from the Steelers) so where is everybody getting he's gonna clean house. To be 5-4 with a back up QB is pretty good. It still comes down to players making plays more than about coaching. Cam in 2015 is that example. 

Maybe because i know RR more than most (not close, just know) so I feel this way but to see what he and the organization had to go through over the last few years is not easy. He may not be a top 10 coach but he may be top 15 and I'm not sure we can get better. Do you think Kyle Shanahan is a genius? I could look good with 5 1st round picks on my defensive line too. It's players making plays too.

Shanahan owned Rivera when he was with the Falcons too.

Sports is not like business. In business, you could be the second, third, fourth or later in the field for a decade and everything would be fine as long as you're turning a profit.

In the NFL, if you're not sniffing the Super Bowl, it's not good enough. you might get plenty of chances, but if ultimately you're just not getting it done, you're gone.

[ickmule]

Why look backwards? Does no good.  

[bigskypanthersguy]

1 hour ago, musicman said:

Dang, I hope all your bosses aren't this critical of all of you or half of you would have been fired and unemployed. Nobody's perfect. Hurney 2.0 has proved to be much better. He's not shrewd making these risky deals but mostly solid moves. RR is a leader and a proven winner. Does he make wrong/bad decision, yeah but who doesn't. Look at Sean McVay, last year everybody wanted him and this year he looks "mortal". RR held it together for the last 3 years with no support from ownership (scandal), no President or GM for a little while and injuries (both LT at the start of the year, etc) and no real players around Cam even going back to 2015 (that was all Cam). He lost some of his top coaches that ran the defense. Has he been great, no, but better then most considering the hand he's dealt with. This year what I think is wrong with the defense is they lost the heart and soul in TD. Luke has expressed several times how much he misses him and he doesn't look the same out there. They fed off each other. 

Tepper has expressed he's a patient guy (coming from the Steelers) so where is everybody getting he's gonna clean house. To be 5-4 with a back up QB is pretty good. It still comes down to players making plays more than about coaching. Cam in 2015 is that example. 

Maybe because i know RR more than most (not close, just know) so I feel this way but to see what he and the organization had to go through over the last few years is not easy. He may not be a top 10 coach but he may be top 15 and I'm not sure we can get better. Do you think Kyle Shanahan is a genius? I could look good with 5 1st round picks on my defensive line too. It's players making plays too.

Are we better now than 3 years ago?

If no, it's time to move on.

[Megadeth]

22 hours ago, bull123 said:

Let’s not forget that the bills play Miami and the Jets twice each

and they lost to Cleveland last week

Yeah, a Bills team that have been bottom dwellers for the last 2 decades. Ron has had a good team to build along with a slew of talent, then next year he builds upon it on top of adding a so called new gameplan only for the next season to fall apart. Ron has 3 generational talents on the team now, what guys on the Bills compares to those guys?

Bills are steadily improving, and their defense is decent at all levels. Ron's Panthers is up and down, and there's always gaping holes in his defense. McDermott joined the Eagles a few years afters after Ron with far less experience, yet Jim Johnson (one of the best defensive coaches ever) still offered Sean the job over Ron when he retired. 

[saX man]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:20 AM, kungfoodude said:

It might not be that dire or might not have been that dire but we don't know, either. The assumption is that it would have been magically better without Rivera and Co. but we honestly don't know if that would be or WILL be the case.

Ultimately moving on to me is about the realization that Rivera just can't get it done anymore. Before the "Riverboat" transition, he was well on his way to getting fired anyway. That SB run bought him enough time and I think it has been enough time. Moving on will make sense with or without Cam.

Yep. He should have been fired right before that first “riverboat” run. And also right before we made the run to go 7-8-1 for the playoffs.

It has been rinse repeat every year minus 2 with Ron. Most of us have been over it for quite some time now.

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, saX man said:

Yep. He should have been fired right before that first “riverboat” run. And also right before we made the run to go 7-8-1 for the playoffs.

It has been rinse repeat every year minus 2 with Ron. Most of us have been over it for quite some time now.

Yeah, I am typically a little slower to jump on the "FIRE THE COACH" bandwagon than most. I am pretty close to my limit on Ron now. I don't honestly think he is a bad coach by any stretch, I just think he is a barely above average NFL coach. That's not likely to get us consistently in the playoffs/Super Bowl discussion.

Ask yourself this, as well, is he a better coach than Payton? Is he a better coach than Quinn? Is he a better coach than Arians? 

[saX man]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I am typically a little slower to jump on the "FIRE THE COACH" bandwagon than most. I am pretty close to my limit on Ron now. I don't honestly think he is a bad coach by any stretch, I just think he is a barely above average NFL coach. That's not likely to get us consistently in the playoffs/Super Bowl discussion.

Ask yourself this, as well, is he a better coach than Peyton? Is he a better coach than Quinn? Is he a better coach than Arians? 

If we don’t quickly find a franchise guy like Cam again, we’re looking at the product right now. He’s a Jeff Fisher. Let’s escape that while we still can.

[SBiii]

Yes.

[TheMaulClaw]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 6:04 AM, Jeremy Igo said:

I was a big advocate for regime change top to bottom in January. Get rid of all coaches and start a policy of no nepotism within the organization. 

 

Fast forward to today, where would we be without Rivera/Hurney but instead a new coach that isn't on the hotseat?

Would we have a better backup QB situation?

Would Cam's injury have been treated better? 

Would the team have more energy and excitement?

 

What say you? Would we be better or worse off than we are now?

TBF to Rivera.  The team has been 5-2 since losing it's starting qb.  We've had one embarrassing showing this year.  The team played well enough in GB to win if it wasn't for just a few things.  Still though we lost. 

Rivera can be frustrating, but he hasn't lost his players.  Obviously it's too early to decide his fate, but if he guides us to a winning season after an 0-2 start and losing Cam, then I just don't see how you can let him go.  Almost every bad year up to this point has had to do with injuries to Cam.

In terms of Hurney,  not sure how you can let him go.  Teams always struggle the first year they switch to a new style D.  It takes a full year or two before the transition is made successfully because of personnel.  Kyle Allen I think has saved Hurney's job.  That kid has been a diamond in the rough.  Whether he's a one hit wonder or not....Hurney found a potential starter for peanuts.  That's a good job by Hurney.

Both of them seem to do a great job balancing that line of keep them or fire them. 

I like what I see out of Allen.  If they trade Cam and decide to keep Allen not sure how it would be wise to bring in a new staff when KA seems to know Turner's system pretty well.  It would be a massive step back for a year or two and I just don't want to watch losing football for a year or two while a new coach gets his system in place.

[mc52beast]

Hard to say what the team would like because we have no idea who Tepper would replace them with.

But I’m about 99.5% positive that when Tepper decides its time to move on that he’s not keeping Ron or Marty.

[TheSpecialJuan]

nah

[1of10Charnatives]

4 hours ago, mc52beast said:

Hard to say what the team would like because we have no idea who Tepper would replace them with.

But I’m about 99.5% positive that when Tepper decides its time to move on that he’s not keeping Ron or Marty.

I'm only 93.52% positive, you must have more info than I do.

[AceBoogie]

No.