In hindsight, should Rivera/Hurney have been retained for the 2019 season.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've challenged people before to go back and watch the video of that speech.

Tell me if that guy sounds anything like the guy we ultimately got.

It really does make you wonder WTF happened.

[Jon Snow]

I've said it before and I will say it again. Ron has over stayed his welcome by 2 seasons.  Hurney should have never been brought back and should have been released as soon as the ink was dry on the sale of the team.  You can't expect any different results if you change nothing.   Both should be gone as soon as the clock hits zero in the last game.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, bigskypanthersguy said:

I've made no bones about being a defensive guy, but I really want an offensive HC this time, if only because we've played the defensive HC card so many times and imo it just hasn't really worked.  

And on the subject of defense...

I will never understand the inclination to leave yourself open to a power run offense with using a hybrid 3-4 this year when our division largely feeds off of a power-run offense.  

You know I just honestly want a guy that is going to surround himself with good football minds and put them in a position to succeed. 

I don't feel like that has been consistently the case with Ron.

[Noobsfirstpost]

For those concerned about Tepper meddling in the Football side of things as an owner. Please keep in mind his pedigree. His mentors was the Rooney family, of the Pittsburgh Steelers. A big difference on management style from that of say Jerry Jones. You can have owners involved on the football side, and be healthy contributors to the over all goals of the franchise. Before his illness, Pat Bowlen (Denver Bronco's) was a great owner and one who loved football (like Tepper) and always wanted to put a winning program on the field. That is a good trait in a owner and one that sets the tone for a franchise and the fan base. For the record, in answer to the OP's question, I too am in the camp of bait should have been cut long ago. Nothing against Ron, he has served us well here in his tenure, but if we are to take the next step to having just the consecutive winning seasons, then we need to try new blood. 
As to him being picked up right away by someone else cause he is so great... so did John Fox, and you see how long he lasted at two different franchises, and now is a sports commentator. Sometimes when you want different results, you need to make change. Same goes for the GM right now, and the general rule in the NFL, any new GM want to have his coach in place, and not the one picked by the previous GM. Same thing for a new coach, who wants that fresh start with a GM.  

[Mr. Scot]

One of the common criticisms of Rivera has been that he eases up on defense when he has a lead and in doing so lets other teams climb back into the game.

Well a short time ago, I read an interview with Rivera (by Rodrigue, I think) where he actually stated that he liked when we built a lead because then he felt he didn't need to be as aggressive on defense.

My jaw dropped.

Unfortunately, I wasn't prepared to post it at the time so I figured I'd just come back to it later.

Now I can't find it 

I know I read it somewhere. I just can't find the article.

but yes, it confirmed something that a lot of us have seen over and over again.

[ncfan]

No

Nothing would be different.

We all were complaining up through preseason that our staff dropped the ball on the backup QB spot and we'd be srcewed if Cam went down.  But our staff are making us look dumb right now with Kyle Allen looking solid.

We complained last season about our defense being so bad and bottom of the league at rushing the passer.  So the staff brought in Burns, Irvin, McCoy and switched up the scheme.  Rolling out this new 3-4 defense, with all the beef in the middle (McCoy, Poe,and KK) and speed on the edge.  And it didnt look bad to start.  Unfortunately injuries happen, and one of the those big guys in the middle went down for the year.  Its hard to do a complete scheme change in 1 off season, so we were a little thin at interior DL.  We've since reverted back to more of the 4-3 after KK went out.  So no more big Poe standing over the middle.  And tweener OLB playing 4-3 DE (remember Addison dropepd weight for this scheme)

 

The OL, the staff draft a OT high.  But its not the staff's fault Little has a concussion.  And its actually looks good that later round Daley has looked good.  Maybe we couldve drafted OT rd 1 instead.  But we wouldn't have gotten Burns (who looked like a future star in the 3-4 prior to his hand injury).  And the the only OT around for us to draft in rd 1 wouldve been Dillard, who has been trash thus far getting his QB killed when he's started and much worse than Little/Daley.

Handling Cam's injury, onky thing different with a new staff would be Cam going to IR early.  Cam is on record he hid the injury from the staff the 1st 2 games, so what would keep him from doing it with a new staff.

 

So, no, nothing would be different.  With a new staff.  

 

Honestly, if Rivera can pull off 10 wins with Allen at QB and Daley at LT, even if he misses the playoffs.  He should get another year to see how he builds around Allen. 

9 wins or less, show him the door.

[Panthera onca]

I was shocked that Tepper kept those two on board after last season. I guess Ron and Marty groveled enough at the 3 day meeting they had with Tepper after the season. I believe Tepper decided to give them one more season so he could get the business side how he wanted it. If great things didn’t happen with the 2019 season then heads will roll. Primarily Ron’s and Marty’s.

[Waldo]

We absolutely should have had a change. There are no guarantees that it would have been better or worse short term but we had a shot to try to do better and didn't take it. Now we are middle of the pack and looking at the same situation again. Clean house and at the very least, try to do better.

I think a new culture along with new GM and HC would do wonders for us. This one is stagnante and promotes medicoracy. Cam might not make it with a new coach or he could be managed better. There are only a couple of current players that are locks but everyone else would have to earn a place at the new table and I'm great with that. We need an oline rebuild, dline rebuild, d needs a competent scheme and im over the 80s coaching philosophies.

[1of10Charnatives]

23 minutes ago, ncfan said:

No

Nothing would be different.

We all were complaining up through preseason that our staff dropped the ball on the backup QB spot and we'd be srcewed if Cam went down.  But our staff are making us look dumb right now with Kyle Allen looking solid.

We complained last season about our defense being so bad and bottom of the league at rushing the passer.  So the staff brought in Burns, Irvin, McCoy and switched up the scheme.  Rolling out this new 3-4 defense, with all the beef in the middle (McCoy, Poe,and KK) and speed on the edge.  And it didnt look bad to start.  Unfortunately injuries happen, and one of the those big guys in the middle went down for the year.  Its hard to do a complete scheme change in 1 off season, so we were a little thin at interior DL.  We've since reverted back to more of the 4-3 after KK went out.  So no more big Poe standing over the middle.  And tweener OLB playing 4-3 DE (remember Addison dropepd weight for this scheme)

 

The OL, the staff draft a OT high.  But its not the staff's fault Little has a concussion.  And its actually looks good that later round Daley has looked good.  Maybe we couldve drafted OT rd 1 instead.  But we wouldn't have gotten Burns (who looked like a future star in the 3-4 prior to his hand injury).  And the the only OT around for us to draft in rd 1 wouldve been Dillard, who has been trash thus far getting his QB killed when he's started and much worse than Little/Daley.

Handling Cam's injury, onky thing different with a new staff would be Cam going to IR early.  Cam is on record he hid the injury from the staff the 1st 2 games, so what would keep him from doing it with a new staff.

 

So, no, nothing would be different.  With a new staff.  

 

Honestly, if Rivera can pull off 10 wins with Allen at QB and Daley at LT, even if he misses the playoffs.  He should get another year to see how he builds around Allen. 

9 wins or less, show him the door.

You bring up some good points but tbh my losing faith in Rivera is not based on just this season or because of any of the things you've listed. I actually think one of Rivera's strengths as a coach that we are seeing this season is his ability to make things work better than a dumpster fire in circumstances that could reduce lesser coaches to roasting marshmellows. The flip side of that coin is his inability to leverage talent to it's fullest, his lack of creativity or imagination in gameplanning and ingame adjustments, and the way his teams often seem to get outcoached against top flight competition. I think his floor is higher than most coaches but his ceiling is lower and his time here has run it's course. I think change would be good for both parties.

FWIW I have had the chance to interact with him personally, waited on him and Stephanie on the day the Greg Hardy scandal broke, and his 50th birthday the week before his first playoff game as a HC, and have always found him to be gracious and engaging. I think he's a high character guy who has set the right tone character wise for the team and that will always be something I appreciate about him.

[thefuzz]

Tepper should have, at the very least brought in a GM with a football background, or at the very least someone that knows the game well to act as a "President" to oversee the football side of the operation while he was focused on the biz side.

Now, I think that he should have cut bait on both RR and MH as soon as he got the keys to the building, he didn't, it was a mistake, and I think now he realizes that.  Lesson learned.

The ghost of 2015 continues to haunt this fanbase.

[Shufdog]

3 hours ago, GoPanthers123 said:

if new coach said week 1 Cam you are going to sit out the next few games, Allen will start.  That would be the right move.  There are coaches better than Ron and then there are much worse coaches than Ron. I’m sorry Atlanta, you went 1-7 with a team that is much better than the other tank bowl contenders. Your coach sucks. 

Hurney made a draft that looked good in preseason and pretty good in regular season - when they had a chance to play.   

If a brand new coach came in and benched Cam the very first week, there would have been riots in the streets! LOL!!!

[Moo Daeng]

These topics are blatant click bait. The Fox News and CNN approach to mindless discourse.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

There is not a single coach or coaching candidate in the NFL that could have changed any worthwhile outcome of this season.

People want change for the sake of change.  Not because it would actually make the organization better.

[thefuzz]

4 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

There is not a single coach or coaching candidate in the NFL that could have changed any worthwhile outcome of this season.

People want change for the sake of change.  Not because it would actually make the organization better.

How many years have the panthers been under the control of Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera together?

How many playoff wins when the two of them are both employed at the same time?

How many division wins does Ron have since 2015?