Mid season grades

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I tend to just try to see whether the units look like they're playing better from one season to the next.

Right now, I'd call it a mixed bag.

Yeah but there are a lot of variables in that assessment. Is it impacted by the performance of other units on the defense? Is it impacted by the influx of new players? Is it impacted by injury issues in the unit? Is it impacted by offensive performance? Is it impacted by overall defensive scheme changes? Etc, etc, etc. 

The thing is, even if say Bradberry clearly shows better technique we wouldn't even know if that was primarily him doing his own work or primarily the work he does with his positional coaches. That's just such an "inside baseball" kind of assessment that we really don't have the day-to-day knowledge to be able to easily assess. At best, you could do hours and hours of game film on all the DB's and try and discern if you see visible technical improvements. Even the most trained eye would probably have a difficult time with that. The coaches know who is effective and if they are being effective. As fans, we probably rarely ever will unless we get relayed that information by others.

[kungfoodude]

@Mr. Scot I will ask this question, we have an OL coach that keeps getting lauded as an "OL whisperer", however we consistently struggle year after year with that unit. What does that say about Matsko?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but there are a lot of variables in that assessment. Is it impacted by the performance of other units on the defense? Is it impacted by the influx of new players? Is it impacted by injury issues in the unit? Is it impacted by offensive performance? Is it impacted by overall defensive scheme changes? Etc, etc, etc. 

The thing is, even if say Bradberry clearly shows better technique we wouldn't even know if that was primarily him doing his own work or primarily the work he does with his positional coaches. That's just such an "inside baseball" kind of assessment that we really don't have the day-to-day knowledge to be able to easily assess. At best, you could do hours and hours of game film on all the DB's and try and discern if you see visible technical improvements. Even the most trained eye would probably have a difficult time with that. The coaches know who is effective and if they are being effective. As fans, we probably rarely ever will unless we get relayed that information by others.

I get that. I'm just going off what I see.

My opinion and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

 

(I lied; I have no idea what a cup of coffee costs at Starbucks)

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

@Mr. Scot I will ask this question, we have an OL coach that keeps getting lauded as an "OL whisperer", however we consistently struggle year after year with that unit. What does that say about Matsko?

I've actually never been that big a fan of John Matsko. I know a lot of people are but not me.

I would concede that he is a little bit hamstrung by the fact that nobody can stay healthy at left tackle this season.

That, plus Matt Paradis isn't very good anymore and Trai Turner apparently ate his paycheck.

[Forty-Eight]

Kyle Allen C+
CMC A+ 
OL D  
WR D 
TE C 
DL F- 
LB B- 
CB C+
S C  
ST B+ 
Coaching F-

[SmokinwithWilly]

6 hours ago, Wire Dawg said:

I think there are a couple categories you have left off, but I don't strongly disagree with your current evaluation. What would you rank coaching? I think that definitely has a play in the overall team score but I think it should have it's own category. Likewise, special teams? 

Just some thoughts:

Personally I think CMC is definitely bumping up the Offensive grade and without him, it could be the difference between a passing and a failing grade. I would like to see more TE involvement, more WR involvement, I mean every D knows that CMC is getting the ball. He is going to run it up the gut for chunk yardage. Also, he will release into the flat for a dump pass, so they are over loading the box and keeping spies on him. What does that do, it opens up man coverage down field, so if the WR's can get separation, just having the threat of CMC should mean some big passing plays. You expect them to run it on first down, instead try a post route and see what happens, mix it up a bit. 

Coaching I'm going to go with a WTF grade. DW at left tackle. WTF. There is no way Ron looked at him and said that's the best option we have. If so, then you have to seriously question his ability to evaluate players, which we all have been doing for years.

CMC playing nearly every down. WTF. I understand hes a weapon like we've never had, but give the guy a breather and some bench guys some reps. Something happens to CMC and we have almost zero in game experience at RB. Why have more than one RB on the roster if you're never going to use them. Run CMC into the ground just like Cam. We have all seen how that works out. 

Cam. WTFFFFF. I'm sorry but when these guys spend as much time together as they do, there is no way Cam is hiding that lisfranc and Ron doesnt know about it. He did the same thing he always does, play Cam when he knows he shouldn't then act like he didnt know. Now he is out for the season, and possibly out of Carolina forever because of not stopping him from playing injured vs hurt. It's the 3rd time he's done this. Fireable offense without question.

Defense - I dont know. The run D gets an F. they couldnt stop a rascal scooter. Secondary looks improved but for fugs sake tackle someone. What good is it to truck someone if you miss, sorry Reid. Overall I give them a D.

Matsko. I think hes done ok with what he has. Paradis is blah, DW is, I dont know wtf he is, Turner is riding his fat contract, and we have 2 rookie LTs that cant stay healthy. My biggest concern on this line coming into the season was relying on a center coming off a leg injury and he has not looked good. Same with DW but I never thought he should be starting at LT anyway. Matsko gets them ready as best he can, but Ron needs to put them in the best place to succeed and he has failed miserably at that.

Overall, I think we are seeing some success, but it doesnt hide the underlying issues that have been there for years. This team has the talent, just not the staff to put them in a position for long term success.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

30 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Coaching I'm going to go with a WTF grade. DW at left tackle. WTF. There is no way Ron looked at him and said that's the best option we have. If so, then you have to seriously question his ability to evaluate players, which we all have been doing for years.

CMC playing nearly every down. WTF. I understand hes a weapon like we've never had, but give the guy a breather and some bench guys some reps. Something happens to CMC and we have almost zero in game experience at RB. Why have more than one RB on the roster if you're never going to use them. Run CMC into the ground just like Cam. We have all seen how that works out. 

Cam. WTFFFFF. I'm sorry but when these guys spend as much time together as they do, there is no way Cam is hiding that lisfranc and Ron doesnt know about it. He did the same thing he always does, play Cam when he knows he shouldn't then act like he didnt know. Now he is out for the season, and possibly out of Carolina forever because of not stopping him from playing injured vs hurt. It's the 3rd time he's done this. Fireable offense without question.

Defense - I dont know. The run D gets an F. they couldnt stop a rascal scooter. Secondary looks improved but for fugs sake tackle someone. What good is it to truck someone if you miss, sorry Reid. Overall I give them a D.

Matsko. I think hes done ok with what he has. Paradis is blah, DW is, I dont know wtf he is, Turner is riding his fat contract, and we have 2 rookie LTs that cant stay healthy. My biggest concern on this line coming into the season was relying on a center coming off a leg injury and he has not looked good. Same with DW but I never thought he should be starting at LT anyway. Matsko gets them ready as best he can, but Ron needs to put them in the best place to succeed and he has failed miserably at that.

Overall, I think we are seeing some success, but it doesnt hide the underlying issues that have been there for years. This team has the talent, just not the staff to put them in a position for long term success.

Pie for, they couldn't stop a rascal scooter. That's funny.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Coaching I'm going to go with a WTF grade. DW at left tackle. WTF. There is no way Ron looked at him and said that's the best option we have. If so, then you have to seriously question his ability to evaluate players, which we all have been doing for years.

CMC playing nearly every down. WTF. I understand hes a weapon like we've never had, but give the guy a breather and some bench guys some reps. Something happens to CMC and we have almost zero in game experience at RB. Why have more than one RB on the roster if you're never going to use them. Run CMC into the ground just like Cam. We have all seen how that works out. 

Cam. WTFFFFF. I'm sorry but when these guys spend as much time together as they do, there is no way Cam is hiding that lisfranc and Ron doesnt know about it. He did the same thing he always does, play Cam when he knows he shouldn't then act like he didnt know. Now he is out for the season, and possibly out of Carolina forever because of not stopping him from playing injured vs hurt. It's the 3rd time he's done this. Fireable offense without question.

Defense - I dont know. The run D gets an F. they couldnt stop a rascal scooter. Secondary looks improved but for fugs sake tackle someone. What good is it to truck someone if you miss, sorry Reid. Overall I give them a D.

Matsko. I think hes done ok with what he has. Paradis is blah, DW is, I dont know wtf he is, Turner is riding his fat contract, and we have 2 rookie LTs that cant stay healthy. My biggest concern on this line coming into the season was relying on a center coming off a leg injury and he has not looked good. Same with DW but I never thought he should be starting at LT anyway. Matsko gets them ready as best he can, but Ron needs to put them in the best place to succeed and he has failed miserably at that.

Overall, I think we are seeing some success, but it doesnt hide the underlying issues that have been there for years. This team has the talent, just not the staff to put them in a position for long term success.

I get the feeling you're trying to say something 

[panthers55]

15 hours ago, GoPanthers123 said:

As for coaching, it was not a good year.   Playing Williams at tackle in SF game gave up 6 sacks in a half, even after Daley clearly showed superior play.  Our back up RBs not utilised much at all, after playing decent in preseason, to share the workload with CMC or even in a returner role.   I feel the coaching holds the talent level back rather than allowing it to properly develop. 

Ron is a coach who is competent enough, but cannot hang with the best.  That is the dilemma because he just straddles the line of good and bad that in the end it is barely passable.

So you want Norv gone since he makes all the offensive decisions?  Ron controls the defense which has really fallen off.

[CRA]

10 hours ago, Kinographer said:

.

DJ Moore: C

He's not been what we wanted him to be. He's not bad or anything, but he'd be a third option on teams with actually good weapons.

Curtis Samuel: C

He's shown major flashes but he's inconsistent. He's been no better than Damire Byrd was for us.

 

 

 

These two shouldn’t have the same grade. 

We are a running offense.  Not just any running offense but one that features a MVP caliber running back (so by default opportunity is going to be limited).  Add on top of that we have a 23 year old undrafted backup at quarterback.   Not ideal for WR production. 

All that said...

DJ Moore is on pace for a 1216 yard season.  He is a noticeably better IMO than Samuel as a actual WR.  They might be comparable with the ball in their hands.   89 broke 1200 yards only 3 times in his HOF career.  Yes, 89 was significantly better, TDs and all that....

but DJ Moore IMO is better than some believe IMO.  

Moore’s routes largely suck.  Not his route running but what they are having him do.  Part of that is because of the O they are running for Allen.  Super predictable.   

[GoPanthers123]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

So you want Norv gone since he makes all the offensive decisions?  Ron controls the defense which has really fallen off.

If we can find someone better, yes.  The OLine has been such a big issue for at least a year that Ron can’t altogether plead innocence on it either. 

[panthers55]

8 minutes ago, GoPanthers123 said:

If we can find someone better, yes.  The OLine has been such a big issue for at least a year that Ron can’t altogether plead innocence on it either. 

Not really. He plays what he gets. And Hurney opted for speed and playmakers on offense his first draft back. This one he tried to fix the lines  on both sides.  But the truth is that our Oline while struggling has some good potential players who are young and inexperienced and it shows.

 

Seems to me that when our defensive line coach did nothing but the line we were fine. Since he became DC and split duties the defensive line has suffered. Then losing KK was a huge blow. The reality is that having 3 down linemen means that 2 of the three will get double teamed. And that means a huge hole that linebackers have to plug which they aren't. The last time we ran a 3-4 our linebackers were big with the exception of Mills. They could fight off blockers to  get to the runner. Now Shaq, Luke, Carter, etc don't have the size to shed tacklers easily and get swept out of the play.  We need to use more down linemen who play run first and pass second, not the other way around. Burns and Haynes need to stay more disciplined and stop making wide loops that take them totally out of plays.