Kyle Allen's game is improving.

[AceBoogie]

Just now, Jeremy Igo said:

Sure, I can agree with that. Young QBs tend to throw picks. Part of the maturation process. Hopefully they trend downward as well.

 

What concerns me is that they’re trending up. He started off pretty flawlessly. I’m admittedly not a Kyle Allen guy in that I don’t believe him to be a long term solution. At some point this year I want to see Will get a chance. We aren’t making the playoffs. No reason to keep him on the bench. 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

 

Tiki came into the league with minimal fumbles. Was a heavy fumbler in the middle of his career, and the numbers dropped off to resemble what they did at the start of his career. He was a fumbler and hard to argue that it improve. Inconsistent, but that’s not improvement. 

You may also remember that he completely changed the way he carried the ball to counteract those fumbling issues. It was something he recognized was a problem and worked to improve on. Kyle can do that, as well. 

[Jeremy Igo]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah and he also has a full year being with our team through training camp(twice), with our practice squad and playing in nine games(with 8 starts) across two seasons. So, no, he is not a rookie experiencing all this for the first time. He's not a rookie anymore than Aaron Rodgers was in 2008. Is he a young player that is still learning and improving every day? Absolutely. Has he been a professional football player with all that entails for about 18 months now? Yep.

 

Sure, if you want to boil the question down to black and white. On paper he is a second year player. Not as far as his contract is concerned mind you, he is still in the first year of his contract. But on paper yes he is a second year player.

If you want to look at it for what it actually is though, he has fewer reps than some rookies this year.

[Jeremy Igo]

1 minute ago, AceBoogie said:

What concerns me is that they’re trending up. He started off pretty flawlessly. I’m admittedly not a Kyle Allen guy in that I don’t believe him to be a long term solution. At some point this year I want to see Will get a chance. We aren’t making the playoffs. No reason to keep him on the bench. 

He is being asked to do more now. Each week they put more on his plate. The first games without a pick was more a function of not asking him to do much at all.

[Jeremy Igo]

The Panthers came within a few inches of winning in Green Bay in the snow yesterday. As far as losses go, it is fairly palatable. Could have been San Francisco again.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, AceBoogie said:

What concerns me is that they’re trending up. He started off pretty flawlessly. I’m admittedly not a Kyle Allen guy in that I don’t believe him to be a long term solution. At some point this year I want to see Will get a chance. We aren’t making the playoffs. No reason to keep him on the bench. 

The only way I would want to see Grier is in the case of an injury or Allen literally falling off a cliff in terms of game play. Allen has CLEARLY established himself as the starter, although he may have some obvious warts. None of those warts warrant benching him in favor of an actual rookie who did not make a glowing impression in his first offseason. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Sure, if you want to boil the question down to black and white. On paper he is a second year player. Not as far as his contract is concerned mind you, he is still in the first year of his contract. But on paper yes he is a second year player.

If you want to look at it for what it actually is though, he has fewer reps than some rookies this year.

It's more than a semantics argument because the process and preparation with being a professional player are greater than just getting reps in practice as a starting QB. Kyle has a definitive jump start on just about any rookie in the NFL if in preparation and expectations alone.

This isn't worth arguing over. He's inexperienced as a whole, he's improving, he's our starter. It is what it is. 

[MountaineerChemist10]

What i'm worried about is "Can he play like this season after season"? Think back 10 years ago, 2009. The Ragin' Cajun' goes down Week 12 at 4-7 & we start using Matt Moore. Moore goes 4-1, we finish 8-8 & we decide it's time to release Jake & gamble with Moore.

Here we are in 2010. We start Matt Moore @ QB, draft Jimmy Clausen for insurance & start a fresh season. What happens? Moore sucks, Jimmy can't play & we finish 2-14! Turns out to be a terrible decision.

Kyle Allen is doing great so far, but is he worth the gamble? How do we know he'll play this well in '20? Yes, we'll save $19+ Mil but is he good enough releasing a QB whose high ceiling = MVP?

[jfra78]

One thing I was impressed with yesterday was Kyle's ability to avoid the sack.  He shook off several would be sacks.  When the play breaks down in those situations our receivers have to help him out.  I thought it showed a lot of poise to throw it away when nothing was there in those situations.  

This offense is built around Cam being at QB.  A QB like Kyle need a bigger O line and a real redzone threat.  Cam needs more agile athletic lineman to block when he does RPO or takes off on a scramble.  Also Cam is the ultimate Red Zone threat.  Lack of that is why we cant score TDs when we get in the 20s.

Kyle is throwing more interceptions because he is forcing more and taking the checkdown less.  He has to make plays to win and for the most part he did.  Yes he had a bad fumble on the QB center exchange.  All QBs have those at times.  It has happened several times to Cam.  

I don't think this team has a chance to win the SB and only a slight chance to even make the playoffs.  Look at this as a development of a young UDFA QB who shows a lot of promise.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, MountaineerChemist10 said:

What i'm worried about is "Can he play like this season after season"? Think back 10 years ago, 2009. The Ragin' Cajun' goes down Week 12 at 4-7 & we start using Matt Moore. Moore goes 4-1, we finish 8-8 & we decide it's time to release Jake & gamble with Moore.

Here we are in 2010. We start Matt Moore @ QB, draft Jimmy Clausen for insurance & start a fresh season. What happens? Moore sucks, Jimmy can't play & we finish 2-14! Turns out to be a terrible decision.

Kyle Allen is doing great so far, but is he worth the gamble? How do we know he'll play this well in '20? Yes, we'll save $19+ Mil but is he good enough releasing a QB whose high ceiling = MVP?

IMO, the answer is very clearly no but if the rumor mill is to be trusted, ownership has lost faith in Cam. Perhaps they have good reasons or perhaps they don't, we will likely never know that. 

If the decision has already been made to move on from Cam, I wouldn't see a big reason to NOT roll with Kyle Allen at this juncture. He's going to be on an extremely cheap contract for the next season or two, even if he was just simply an average NFL starter, the amount of money saved could revamp the rest of the team in short order. Keep in mind that we have a BUNCH of critical/core players that are coming up on big decisions contractually. 

[Harbingers]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

The Panthers came within a few inches of winning in Green Bay in the snow yesterday. As far as losses go, it is fairly palatable. Could have been San Francisco again.

Exactly, we played like poo on D for the most part. We had some major hiccups on offense. We had the refs giving Green Bay the game(ya I know people say well ignore the refs) but when even Joe Buck and Troy Aiken are calling it out for over a half. You know the refs were bad. In the snow and cold. With some seriously questionable play calling. Within’ inches. Not that bad in the end. 

People want to gripe about Kyle. What they should be griping about is his passes we’re getting seriously wobbly as the game went on. I’m guessing due to the cold. Which can be fixed. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, jfra78 said:

One thing I was impressed with yesterday was Kyle's ability to avoid the sack.  He shook off several would be sacks.  When the play breaks down in those situations our receivers have to help him out.  I thought it showed a lot of poise to throw it away when nothing was there in those situations.  

This offense is built around Cam being at QB.  A QB like Kyle need a bigger O line and a real redzone threat.  Cam needs more agile athletic lineman to black when he does RPO or takes off on a scramble.  Also Cam is the ultimate Red Zone threat.  Lack of that is why we cant score TDs when we get in the 20s.

Kyle is throwing more interceptions because he is forcing more and taking the checkdown less.  He has to make plays to win and for the most part he did.  Yes he had a bad fumble on the QB center exchange.  All QBs have those at times.  It has happened several times to Cam.  

I don't think this team has a chance to win the SB and only a slight chance to even make the playoffs.  Look at this as a development of a young UDFA QB who shows a lot of promise.

I will say that is one area that Kyle, at least IMO, has from start 1 of this season until yesterday's game made clear improvements. So, @AceBoogie I would argue that does indeed show the ability for those early fumbles to be corrected. I think he is doing a better job of feeling that pressure and eluding it or protecting the ball. Let's not write the story on Kyle Allen and TO's yet. If it is still a regular problem over the remaining games, then we can revisit this. 

[jfra78]

7 minutes ago, MountaineerChemist10 said:

What i'm worried about is "Can he play like this season after season"? Think back 10 years ago, 2009. The Ragin' Cajun' goes down Week 12 at 4-7 & we start using Matt Moore. Moore goes 4-1, we finish 8-8 & we decide it's time to release Jake & gamble with Moore.

Here we are in 2010. We start Matt Moore @ QB, draft Jimmy Clausen for insurance & start a fresh season. What happens? Moore sucks, Jimmy can't play & we finish 2-14! Turns out to be a terrible decision.

Kyle Allen is doing great so far, but is he worth the gamble? How do we know he'll play this well in '20? Yes, we'll save $19+ Mil but is he good enough releasing a QB whose high ceiling = MVP?

This is why we dont know yet.  The good thing is we will have almost an entire season with Kyle instead of 5 games.  

[Dunn]

As with most 'Rookies' the Game is so fast paced to start, to be able to just keep your head above water for a game or two is impressive, let alone done what Allen has been able to accomplish this season.  If the game starts to slow down a bit for him, I feel you'll see an even better passer.  There are a few times where he was hesitant to run or throw the check down when it was open and it bit him in the ass.  Hopefully after film he absorbs that and will start to make those reads better.  

He has room to grow and I feel like he can be at worst, a middle of the pack QB in the NFL, and that's more then you can ask for from someone who at one time was a 3rd string QB.