Haven’t been this excited after a loss in quite some time

[JARROD]

Puff puff give,..

[lightsout]

If you lay this loss at the feet of Kyle Allen, you know dick all about football

[Varking]

2 minutes ago, lightsout said:

If you lay this loss at the feet of Kyle Allen, you know dick all about football

He isn't the only reason we lost. He played his part for sure though.

[Rags]

Just now, Varking said:

He has shown that despite playing in more and more games he is not growing when it comes to turnovers. He has been putting the ball on the ground all year. Only recently has he coupled the fumbles with interceptions. He had 1 TD and 2 Turnovers that resulted in +14 points for them and -3 to 7 for us. This isn't balling out. Want to show growth? He did some things well and he did some things poorly. That sounds like an average game at QB.

Or. Or consider this.

He has an expanded playbook and the leash has been extended a bit. Thusly the interceptions. How about that.

This was his first fumble since...The Jaguar game? He's improved a ton since then and this wasn't bad ball security like before, it was a bad snap exchange. 

Stats and numbers are all fine and dandy my guy but you still have to contextualize those numbers.

Cam had a ton of fumbles and ints his first season as a starter. He improved. I'm not gonna say his int and a bad snap exchange is a sign of regression when he's responding well to opening up the offense more.

[Varking]

Just now, Rags said:

Or. Or consider this.

He has an expanded playbook and the leash has been extended a bit. Thusly the interceptions. How about that.

This was his first fumble since...The Jaguar game? He's improved a ton since then and this wasn't bad ball security like before, it was a bad snap exchange. 

Stats and numbers are all fine and dandy my guy but you still have to contextualize those numbers.

Cam had a ton of fumbles and ints his first season as a starter. He improved. I'm not gonna say his int and a bad snap exchange is a sign of regression when he's responding well to opening up the offense more.

He stopped fumbling which is good but he started throwing INTs.

First four games: 7 TDS, 0 INTs, 6 FUMBLES.

Last three games: 3 TDS, 5 INTs, 1 FUMBLE.

One less game played but more turnovers and less scores. If this is due to the playbook being opened up then we need to simplify it again.

[KillerKat]

All we need is another thread comparing Allen to Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Dan Marino. All the while Cam got compared to Jamarcus Russel, Quincy Carter, and Aaron Brooks when he first came into the league. Hmm..I wonder why?

[Rags]

8 minutes ago, Castavar said:

- Unless you think we can sweep both the Saints and Falcons and/or beat the Seahawks, then yeah, the season is pretty much over

- Really? Because we've literally been getting gashed on the ground all year and currently rank #32 against the run.

-I've also been a fan of the Panthers long enough to know never get your hopes up with this team because they will usually disappoint. I used to be the optimistic type, but I have seen way too many Rivera coached games to know this team will end up disappointing somehow. 

- Maybe! Who knows. It's football, anything can happen from injuries to collapses to just surprise wins. I'm not saying it's easy but that's sports. I've long since given up trying to predict them.

- Yes, Aaaaaand not every team is going to be able to exploit it as well as 

    - a Kyle Shanahan schemed offense with two good running backs,  a powerful o-line, and George Kittle to completely punish anyy attempts to stuff the middle.

  - An Aaron Rodgers led offense with one of the better power backs in the leauge.

Off the top of my head, the Cowboys and maybe the Seahawks are the only other teams in the nfc that can completely exploit and take complete advantage of these weaknesses. Maybe the Vikings as well.

Just because you have a weakness (every roster, every team does) doesn't mean you can't win in spite of them. 

- That's you man. If you want to go ahead and throw in the towel on the season, can't blame you. It's football and it's stressful sport to watch, this is a stressful team to watch. I'm optomistic because the seasons still going for us and I'm still a fan of football and unfortunately the NFL is the best showcase of talent, just under a horrible brand.

[SmartyHurney]

He lost the game, 2 dumbass turnovers, and a ton of more throws that should have been.

The kids sucks, flat out. He's a weak armed quarterback that makes poor decisions. He's going to kill the prime of Luke & Christian.

[philit99]

Just now, SmartyHurney said:

He lost the game, 2 dumbass turnovers, and a ton of more throws that should have been.

The kids sucks, flat out. He's a weak armed quarterback that makes poor decisions. He's going to kill the prime of Luke & Christian.

I disagree. The Jerome Boger call in the end zone for roughing the passer, and the run D cost us this game. I would also like to know why they didn’t call Intentional grounding on the play, it would have been a safety?

[firefox1234]

22 minutes ago, KillerKat said:

All we need is another thread comparing Allen to Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Dan Marino. All the while Cam got compared to Jamarcus Russel, Quincy Carter, and Aaron Brooks when he first came into the league. Hmm..I wonder why?

This fan base has finally got the QB it deserves thats all.

[Rags]

10 minutes ago, Varking said:

He stopped fumbling which is good but he started throwing INTs.

First four games: 7 TDS, 0 INTs, 6 FUMBLES.

Last three games: 3 TDS, 5 INTs, 1 FUMBLE.

One less game played but more turnovers and less scores. If this is due to the playbook being opened up then we need to simplify it again.

Again. Contextualize. If you're gonna throw numbers in you cannot just act like they tell the whole story. This goes for the good and the bad.

First Four Games: Heavy. Heavy reliance on CMac and almost all of the offense ran entirely through him. Kyle didn't go deep much, and the quality of those defenses were "kind of okay." at best.

Last three games: 3 of those ints came in the game where we were completely ragdolled as a unit by one of the two best defenses in the league. We could not run the ball very early and we had to put it all on Kyle, who pressed and couldn't come up with anything. Cam's pressed and couldn't come up with anything many times earlier in his career. In fact, Cam's turnovers were a big point of contention around here, and I'd say he turned out fine, but I digress.

The other two ints? Came in his games where he had the touchdowns. So 3tds/3tos in those last two games. Not great! But not awful either.

Again, no one's acting like he's a world beater but to say stupid poo like "We need to simplify it again." based off of empty ass box score stats is hella dumb. Stats and eyetest help piece together this information. 

Let's talk about the positives! of opening up the playbook shall we?

- Less of a strain put on CMac. The last two weeks we haven't had to put as much on him and that is huge.

- Developing more of an on field chemistry with players like Moore, Olsen and Samuel (the last of which has...honestly been kind of a disappointment, tbh. I'm not so sure Samuel is a deep threat as of right now.)

- Seeing what we have in Kyle and help us plan better for the future. Even with these flaws, there's a lot to like about Kyle and what he has shown and hope he has room to grow. Every QB has turnovers, every QB has flaws, but Kyle has shown steady progression.

Yes his mistakes have hurt us but you cannot act like that's not a part of the process. Like you're gonna find this mystical QB that isn't gonna make mistakes early, well at any point really, but especially early.  You cannot throw around numbers without contextualizing them especially in a game as Team Heavy as football. Good numbers lie just as much as bad ones. 

 

[Varking]

31 minutes ago, Rags said:

Again. Contextualize. If you're gonna throw numbers in you cannot just act like they tell the whole story. This goes for the good and the bad.

First Four Games: Heavy. Heavy reliance on CMac and almost all of the offense ran entirely through him. Kyle didn't go deep much, and the quality of those defenses were "kind of okay." at best.

Last three games: 3 of those ints came in the game where we were completely ragdolled as a unit by one of the two best defenses in the league. We could not run the ball very early and we had to put it all on Kyle, who pressed and couldn't come up with anything. Cam's pressed and couldn't come up with anything many times earlier in his career. In fact, Cam's turnovers were a big point of contention around here, and I'd say he turned out fine, but I digress.

The other two ints? Came in his games where he had the touchdowns. So 3tds/3tos in those last two games. Not great! But not awful either.

Again, no one's acting like he's a world beater but to say stupid poo like "We need to simplify it again." based off of empty ass box score stats is hella dumb. Stats and eyetest help piece together this information. 

Let's talk about the positives! of opening up the playbook shall we?

- Less of a strain put on CMac. The last two weeks we haven't had to put as much on him and that is huge.

- Developing more of an on field chemistry with players like Moore, Olsen and Samuel (the last of which has...honestly been kind of a disappointment, tbh. I'm not so sure Samuel is a deep threat as of right now.)

- Seeing what we have in Kyle and help us plan better for the future. Even with these flaws, there's a lot to like about Kyle and what he has shown and hope he has room to grow. Every QB has turnovers, every QB has flaws, but Kyle has shown steady progression.

Yes his mistakes have hurt us but you cannot act like that's not a part of the process. Like you're gonna find this mystical QB that isn't gonna make mistakes early, well at any point really, but especially early.  You cannot throw around numbers without contextualizing them especially in a game as Team Heavy as football. Good numbers lie just as much as bad ones. 

 

Part of the reason we got ragdolled by the 49ers is because of the mistakes Allen made. Keeping their offense on the field against our defense to watch them get gashed, get tired and get gashed again. And again, I have not said he was awful. I saw he was average. I even agreed earlier that I would rate his performance today as average to above average. I just don't see greatness in the kid in general but especially not today. I'm not somebody to anoint a kid playing his first full season as the future of the position when his stats don't look great and we lost the game. Then when you delve deeper you can see a 21 point swing that was directly related to him and go "yeah, he is it". He hung in there and I am proud of him for that but I just don't believe he played great.

Dak threw for 450+, a 2 TDS and 3 INTs against the Packers. Due to all the mistakes its hard for me to rate that as a great performance. It was good in terms of yards but he hurt his team three times. Turnovers kill. Yards are a mostly empty stat when you don't score. Dak hung in there and battled and put up yards but it wasn't a great game. It wasn't "as good of a game as I can remember" like Olsen said. It wasn't balling out or epic or great. It was an above average to good showing today for Allen. 

I don't believe his performance TODAY, as pertaining to this thread topic, has shown us something clicked for him and took his game to another level where we don't need to address the QB position in the next couple of years. The topic was about today. Today didn't solidify anything. Time to put my kid to sleep. Can reply to your replies tomorrow after work.

[Chief Keek]

Excited about a loss....

 

[Dragoon11]

2 hours ago, Castavar said:

It only means a lot if they do something with it. Progression is not linear. That's why winning NOW is the only thing that matters. Anything else is just hearsay.

You're wrong, progression IS linear, but you have to have the right pieces in play. I think the Panthers really do, yes, this loss sucked ass, BUT... You can see Allen's confidence building with Moore and Samuel slowly every game now. That IS linear and that IS progression. We ALL knew this was going to be a tough game to win, especially with GB coming off that loss to San Diego. As long as Allen keeps improving his timing with Moore and Samuel and (god willing) our OL can be good enough to give him time to throw, I really think this team could make a playoff run. All that has been lacking with this team is the ability to have a WR impact. It's starting to happen, DJ has had back to back 100+ yard games and it's only a matter of time before Samuel has a huge game. If that QB/WR connection PROGRESSIVELY gets better like we are seeing, then this offense could become pretty lethal. The fact is... Allen is a very young QB, you have to expect some mistakes with the maturation process, Tom Brady had 18 TD's and 12 int's his second season in which, much like Allen, he became the starter that year. I'm NOT saying Allen is Tom freaking Brady, just saying we have to give a 23 year old kid a couple of mulligans a game at this stage, hell, he looks very poised and "in control" out there, that's the thing I see most with this kid, he passes the eye test thus far... Let's let it play out, we have to root for our OL and very young WR's to progressively improve (and of course our non-run stopping defense), it looks like that is happening... We played a great team today!