Likely won't see Cam in a Panthers uni again

[therealmjl]

3 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

I call em like I see em. The previous page you're clearly complaining about cam not being on the sideline. 

If it wasn’t him not being on the sideline it’d be his outfits 

[MHS831]

13 minutes ago, Palmetto said:

That last line was not sarcasm people thought he was a franchise Qb after three games actually

He's not a bust because I didnt have high expectations for him

I think hes played pretty good.  for a un-drafted guy he cant be a bust

the point that you seem to miss is

other young Qbs can play GREAT football and the attitude here will be "that guys overrated wait until they get film on him hes not that good"

Allen didnt play has good as those Qbs but the exact opposite was said he was anointed the next Warner here to save the franchise

I did not read that people called him a franchise qb---but if they did and you mock them, then the insinuation is that he is not.  You are doing the same thing--insisting that what you have seen means that he cannot become one.

I use the Elway example.  He completed 47.5% of his passes during his rookie year.  He had twice as many interceptions than TDs--in fact, during his first 2 seasons, in which he started 24 games, he had 29 interceptions.  Since he was a first rounder, people were willing to develop him.  He now wears a yellow jacket.  Tell me, if Kyle Allen completed 47% of his passes and had 14 interceptions vs. 7 TDs in 10 games, what would you be saying about his future here?

Not saying that Allen is Elway, but Denver committed to building an offensive line, a process that did not take hold until year 3--they brought in WRs who could catch anything. 

Allen has potential--despite what people think.  He is 23 and a Panther, so I will give him time.  And no, it does not mean I hate Cam--I hate the decision we will have to make in 2020 when a banged up, former running qb wants $35m per year to stay here. 

 

[Palmetto]

 

I haven't called him a bust or a franchise Qb

Im calling out the people calling him a franchise QB after 3 or 4 games while demonizing better Qbs after the same time period

you're using that GOP logic now ignore the crime call out those who are reporting the crime

 

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Lol. This is hysterical. Allen is an UDFA with very little experience. Have you seen the normal stats for rookies? Many don’t even play their first year but are usually on the team. Peyton Manning lead the league in INTs year one with about 2 per game. Lamar Jackson played only 7 games last year and led the league in fumbles with 12. Jared Goff was awful his rookie year as was Elway and a ton of others.

I’m not bashing Cam or praising Allen but you guys are borderline ridiculous in your defense of Cam that your hot takes are crazy. Basically a rookie since he didn’t have enough service time to count last year bouncing around PSs, evaluating him as not good enough as a backup is absurd as if rookies don’t make a lot of mistakes. Normally rookies don’t take over two games into the season for a contending team. 

They are mocking people for praising Allen too soon by bashing him too soon.  I watched the same game they saw---Allen was forced into improvising and the WRs were out of the rhythm.  Great QBs struggle in that situation.  He made mistakes---but the mistakes were caused by the OL allowing the defense to put too much on a young, developing QB.  People here think players are born great or they are not--throw them away if they have a bad game out of the blocks. 

But the pleasure some of these Cam nut huggers got out of yesterday's game is disturbing--they are not fans if they seem to relish Allen's bad games so that they can say they are right and support an aging running QB with injury concerns show a complete lack of understanding of the game, how players develop and decline, and the business side of football.

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Palmetto said:

 

I haven't called him a bust or a franchise Qb

Im calling out the people calling him a franchise QB after 3 or 4 games while demonizing better Qbs after the same time period

you're using that GOP logic now ignore the crime call out those who are reporting the crime

 

Not a GOP supporter--so we have that in common.  So to make the point that people who called him a franchise QB--maybe potential, but nobody crowned him (unless I misread or did not read them all) a franchise QB--but if they did, and you call them out for being wrong, you have to be operating on the assumption that he has proven that he is NOT a franchise qb---which is equally absurd. 

To repeat myself, was John Elway a franchise QB after his first 10 games?  (47.5% completion rate, 7 TDs, 14 int.)  The team (understanding football) built the OL and got his some top WRs.  He suddenly because a Hall of Fame QB with 2 rings.

We tend to stick with a high draft pick longer than we do an undrafted free agent, when the free agent needs more development.  My assessment of Allen was that he was accurate, moves well in the pocket, and had poise and calmness under pressure.  However, there is a limit to what any QB can stand.  Paradis, Turner, Moten, and Little all struggled yesterday.  Most --- not some-- of his passes were on the run or after the timing was disrupted.  Aaron Rodgers would have struggled yesterday, but he would have made more plays on the run--however, he was developed for 2-3 years before being thrown into the mix.

[Palmetto]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Not a GOP supporter--so we have that in common.  So to make the point that people who called him a franchise QB--maybe potential, but nobody crowned him (unless I misread or did not read them all) a franchise QB--but if they did, and you call them out for being wrong, you have to be operating on the assumption that he has proven that he is NOT a franchise qb---which is equally absurd. 

To repeat myself, was John Elway a franchise QB after his first 10 games?  (47.5% completion rate, 7 TDs, 14 int.)  The team (understanding football) built the OL and got his some top WRs.  He suddenly because a Hall of Fame QB with 2 rings.

We tend to stick with a high draft pick longer than we do an undrafted free agent, when the free agent needs more development.  My assessment of Allen was that he was accurate, moves well in the pocket, and had poise and calmness under pressure.  However, there is a limit to what any QB can stand.  Paradis, Turner, Moten, and Little all struggled yesterday.  Most --- not some-- of his passes were on the run or after the timing was disrupted.  Aaron Rodgers would have struggled yesterday, but he would have made more plays on the run--however, he was developed for 2-3 years before being thrown into the mix.

You wanted Allen to be the franchise savior ...he's not so now you want to right these long comments to make yourself feel better about your failed analysis

Dont worry if Grier gets in this season and throws 3 Tds to 8 ints i get the feeling you'll be on that bandwagon and claim Kyle Allen was just the coffee boy

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

congrats on this truly shitty example. quarterbacks are drafted high based on their tools and their ceilings, not for their year 1 production. 1st rounders aren’t getting more leeway just because of the sunk costs. they get more leeway because they have tools to build on. kyle allen went undrafted for a reason. what are his top tier tools? he doesn’t have it mentally or physically. 

If you think is is shitty, then it must be a valid point--you are saying that people do not stick with a first round bust longer than an undrafted player in the NFL?  If they have the tools, they do not bust--right?  They are athletes, not carpenters.  Mental acumen, poise, leadership, etc. are also tools--No GM cuts a first rounder that struggles at the same rate he cuts an undrafted free agent that struggles.  It is a business, and your high picks are investments.  At any rate, the fact that you disagree is encouraging to me--thanks for the endorsement.

 

 

[MHS831]

3 minutes ago, Palmetto said:

You wanted Allen to be the franchise savior ...he's not so now you want to right these long comments to make yourself feel better about your failed analysis

Dont worry if Grier gets in this season and throws 3 Tds to 8 ints i get the feeling you'll be on that bandwagon and claim Kyle Allen was just the coffee boy

So now you feel qualified to tell me what I want?  That is brilliant because you can say whatever you want and win the argument, which is the ultimate point for you! 

By the way, failing to understand the argument does not mean your opponent failed to make a valid point.  If you are calling out people who support Allen because he had a bad game based on the fact that you simplified praise for him as "franchising" him, then the obvious assumption is that you feel there is evidence to disprove their point--meaning that there is now proof that Allen is not a starting-caliber QB in the NFL.  If you did not think so, calling Allen supporters out makes no sense.   How is that a failed argument?  It is the only argument, one that you can't see.

[Palmetto]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

So now you feel qualified to tell me what I want?  That is brilliant because you can say whatever you want and win the argument! 

 

[AggieLean]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

They are mocking people for praising Allen too soon by bashing him too soon.  I watched the same game they saw---Allen was forced into improvising and the WRs were out of the rhythm.  Great QBs struggle in that situation.  He made mistakes---but the mistakes were caused by the OL allowing the defense to put too much on a young, developing QB.  People here think players are born great or they are not--throw them away if they have a bad game out of the blocks. 

But the pleasure some of these Cam nut huggers got out of yesterday's game is disturbing--they are not fans if they seem to relish Allen's bad games so that they can say they are right and support an aging running QB with injury concerns show a complete lack of understanding of the game, how players develop and decline, and the business side of football.

The question that should be asked is what was your reaction towards Cam during his first 2 or 3 years here? We’re you this sympathetic and supportive? You very much could’ve been, as a search of old threads could validate that, but if you weren’t, then the question is why weren’t you?

Youre so quick to call out “Cam nuthuggers,” but did you call out the “Matt Moore huggers” back when Cam first arrived? There was a poster or two that used to trash Cam pretty heavily back then, as the running joke was he was Matt Moore’s relative. Did you call him out? What about those who bagged on Cam for any rough stretches during his early years?

If you did not, then the question becomes why didn’t you and why do you feel the need to take up for Kyle Allen?

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, AggieLean said:

The question that should be asked is what was your reaction towards Cam during his first 2 or 3 years here? We’re you this sympathetic and supportive? You very much could’ve been, as a search of old threads could validate that, but if you weren’t, then the question is why weren’t you?

Youre so quick to call out “Cam nuthuggers,” but did you call out the “Matt Moore huggers” back when Cam first arrived? There was a poster or two that used to trash Cam pretty heavily back then, as the running joke was he was Matt Moore’s relative. Did you call him out? What about those who bagged on Cam for any rough stretches during his early years?

I can confirm that he actively wanted Newton traded in early 2013 before we went on a run.

[AggieLean]

Just now, TheRed said:

I can confirm that he actively wanted Newton traded in early 2013 before we went on a run.

Thanks. 

So, the question is why is he willing to give Kyle time, and wasn’t trying to do the same for Cam?

See, as someone who has been here for awhile, what I notice is that these same folks who trashed Cam early on, now all of a sudden want to give Kyle the benefit of the doubt. You’ve got older posters pretty much sticking up for Kyle due to their dislike of Newton.

[TheRed]

13 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

Thanks. 

So, the question is why is he willing to give Kyle time, and wasn’t trying to do the same for Cam?

See, as someone who has been here for awhile, what I notice is that these same folks who trashed Cam early on, now all of a sudden want to give Kyle the benefit of the doubt. You’ve got older posters pretty much sticking up for Kyle due to their dislike of Newton.

I've done some searching and can't find the trade threads. But here is one that is literally the evening of our victory over the Vikings that year which sparked an 8 game win streak. You can see MHS is doing the exact same thing all those years ago that he is doing now. Even going as far as comparing Cam to Vince Young, after a WIN, lol.

 

[AggieLean]

14 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I've done some searching and can't find the trade threads. But here is one that is literally the evening of our victory over the Vikings that year which sparked an 8 game win streak. You can see MHS is doing the exact same thing all those years ago that he is doing now. Even going as far as comparing Cam to Vince Young, after a WIN, lol.

 

Just read through that old thread, and it brought back memories. There’s been some bad posters to come through here, yet there’s been some pretty good ones as well.

Anyways, yea it’s interesting how he and others were wanting to give up on Cam so quickly, but want to call out those who want to do the same with Kyle. It’s almost like they just don’t like Cam Newton.