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Kyle Allen can’t become a franchise QB? Think again..

PanthersNC1984

By PanthersNC1984,
in Carolina Panthers

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Call Me James said:

He's had an entire off season preparing with the first team as well as a full pre season. 

That matters. 

Cam did take reps in training camp, and allen and grier were rotating reps behind him.  Allen did not work the first time offense "all off season."

edit: https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/25/panthers-2019-training-camp-takeaways-first-practice-cam-newton-will-grier-greg-little/

note that Grier took 2nd team reps behind Cam that day.

Allen did "start" in the preseason too but he rotated with Grier as well there.

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Black&BlueBubba Proficient

Black&BlueBubba

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13 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Dude. I am a huge Allen supporter.  You are acting like a crazy homer.  It is okay he isn't the most perfect person ever to play QB.  We can comment on his play without being dicks, without being unreasonable, and with highlighting areas of need.  Many of us regularly point out his improvements.  That is good.  But he is far from perfect, and he is lacking in vertical passing attack.  

To illustrate, prior to this game, he had the lowest completion percentage of *any other QB* this season on passes>20 yards.  Given he went something like 2/7 this last game, that doesn't bode well for that changing.  Our WRs are not AMAZING, but he has serious deficiencies in his deep ball atm.  Hopefully that changes, since as I noted, he HAS connected on them before.

I heard Delhomme on WNFZ talking about his downfield throws.  It was sort of a homer take but he thinks he has the arm talent to make all the throws.  
He said while Allen did get some first team reps in camp he didn’t get probably all the throws he needed to build timing on the long ball with DJ and Curtis.  
He also said that that is correctable. He said more reps with those 2 and also was talking about how he would stay after practice and throw at garbage cans 42 yards down the field to get the point of the ball coming down perfect.  

Yes it’s sort of a homer take by Jake.  Let’s see if his downfield passing gets better as the season progresses.  
 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Just now, Black&BlueBubba said:

I heard Delhomme on WNFZ talking about his downfield throws.  It was sort of a homer take but he thinks he has the arm talent to make all the throws.  
He said while Allen did get some first team reps in camp he didn’t get probably all the throws he needed to build timing on the long ball with DJ and Curtis.  
He also said that that is correctable. He said more reps with those 2 and also was talking about how he would stay after practice and throw at garbage cans 42 yards down the field to get the point of the ball coming down perfect.  

Yes it’s sort of a homer take by Jake.  Let’s see if his downfield passing gets better as the season progresses.  
 

I agree with Jake actually.  We have seen him make the throws, just not consistently, so I don't think it is an arm strength issue really.  With practice I think he can improve there.  He doesn't need to be Cam, he just needs to be more consistent with hitting a couple more a game.  Long balls are often more about timing with the WRs than just heaving a ball up, so there is a chance that improves as the season progresses.

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Skack25 Community Regular

Skack25

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13 hours ago, Snake said:

Did he catch it no... It was to high. It's called a perfect throw. I know you huggers don't understand that. It's really sad. 

Assuming we are talking about the same throw, Curt had to turn around to catch that ball.. that is evidence enough that it wasn't a perfect pass.  It was a great throw, right over the defenders arm, but not perfect by any means.  He underthrows the majority of his deep balls, but so did the Cam we had in week 1 and 2.

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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Derrick Anderson went 10-6 in Cleveland...then settled into being a backup where he belonged. Sample size matters and Allen has a much better team around him. The more I see from him the more I think he is a Jag starter that's good enough to play until you find someone better or have to anti-up for a large contract. If he makes it to franchise QB level that's great, but like Jake I don't think he has enough talent to make that happen no matter how much people want to pretend. 

 

 

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jfra78 Veteran

jfra78

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16 minutes ago, Skack25 said:

Assuming we are talking about the same throw, Curt had to turn around to catch that ball.. that is evidence enough that it wasn't a perfect pass.  It was a great throw, right over the defenders arm, but not perfect by any means.  He underthrows the majority of his deep balls, but so did the Cam we had in week 1 and 2.

Jake made a career out of underthrown balls, sometimes the receiver just has to get it

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raz Newbie

raz

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7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Derrick Anderson went 10-6 in Cleveland...then settled into being a backup where he belonged. Sample size matters and Allen has a much better team around him. The more I see from him the more I think he is a Jag starter that's good enough to play until you find someone better or have to anti-up for a large contract. If he makes it to franchise QB level that's great, but like Jake I don't think he has enough talent to make that happen no matter how much people want to pretend. 

 

 

super hot take bro.  amazed you're not in a front office somewhere

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Derrick Anderson went 10-6 in Cleveland...then settled into being a backup where he belonged. Sample size matters and Allen has a much better team around him. The more I see from him the more I think he is a Jag starter that's good enough to play until you find someone better or have to anti-up for a large contract. If he makes it to franchise QB level that's great, but like Jake I don't think he has enough talent to make that happen no matter how much people want to pretend. 

 

 

Anderson's first 4 games he played in were in 2006 he went 66/117 (56%), 5 TDs, 8 INTs, with a record of 1-3... 

You may be right ultimately that Allen is nothing special and perhaps his career will compare to Anderon's, as ofc we are a much better team than Cleveland was that year, but Allen is outperforming Anderson and many other JAGs/backups at this point in their career by a significant margin.  It does not mean he is "a franchise QB", and I hate comparisons to the aforementioned superstars in the OP, but for his level of experience he is playing really well IMO.

edit: and even in his pro bowl year in 2007, he started off very hot and cold and threw quite a few picks

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Call Me James Veteran

Call Me James

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35 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

no he didn't 

He ran with the first team during OTAs while newton was rehabbing.

 

He ran with the first team in Pre-season and camp when Cam was out. 

The point is he's had first team reps, he's on his second year in this offense, and he had a rapport with the other playmakers on offense for those reasons. Pretending like he hasn't is just because he didn't start until week 3 is a bit dishonest.

45 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Cam did take reps in training camp, and allen and grier were rotating reps behind him.  Allen did not work the first time offense "all off season."

edit: https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/25/panthers-2019-training-camp-takeaways-first-practice-cam-newton-will-grier-greg-little/

note that Grier took 2nd team reps behind Cam that day.

Allen did "start" in the preseason too but he rotated with Grier as well there.

They did rotate. According to Turner they're pretty similar, but KA was the better performer in practice. 

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