Kyle Allen can’t become a franchise QB? Think again..

[jtm]

1 hour ago, mjligon said:

 

I understand your selective memory is keeping you from thinking clearly on this subject. 

the answer is yes, Cam Newton has proven time and again when healthy he can make any throw on the football field.

Allen has yet to prove this.

Not trying to get into yet another Cam thread, but how long has it been since cam could make all the throws?

[1of10Charnatives]

21 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Huh? Cam has had big slow receivers who couldnt get any yac majority of his career here. When he had guys like smitty and tedd ginn they put up numbers.

Funchess and Benjamin collectively do not represent Cam's starters over the majority of his career. Combined they played in 101 games for the Panthers. Cam has started 125 games for us, which means he's had 250 WR starts. Funchess and Benjamin represent about 40% of the WR starts in his career,  clearly not a majority.

Smitty is a good example of a receiver who could compensate for Cam's lack of accuracy on deep throws and still be productive, but Smitty was an all pro talent and the best WR this franchise has ever had. Ginn had plenty of throws go his way that he could have broke for a TD, but had to adjust to inaccuracy and either wasn't able to haul in or had to settle for the completion with little to no YAC.  Admittedly this was often because Ginn's shortcoming is his hands, but I'm not the one who brought him up, I'm just pointing out what I saw happen over his tenure here, and there were times Cam underthrew and even overthrew him, which in a way is kind of impressive considering how fast Ginn is, but still. 

Cam is a great qb and I would take him at peak form in a heartbeat, but his accuracy has always been the most significant flaw in his game. Asserting otherwise would be pretty head in the sand instead of being realistic about a player's strengths and weaknesses.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, jtm said:

Not trying to get into yet another Cam thread, but how long has it been since cam could make all the throws?

This off season.  If you mean in a game, well... Cam was 2/5 on completions >20 yards vs Stl... so he struggled there relative to his usual. 

[Khyber53]

10 hours ago, Call Me James said:

This isn't Kyle Allen's first season though. 

He was on the team for two games. The last game of the season was his only time in to speak of. If you consider that he only had three seasons of college ball and limited time there, maybe he's as close to a rookie as you can get without actually being one. 

[1of10Charnatives]

42 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

Hey now. Kyle is the white.. I mean right.. man for the job

*sighs*

I love Cam's personality and energy, and I know for a fact there is racist sentiment against him within our fanbase, because I've dealt with it face to face, but can we please stop implying that supporting a backup who is doing far better than anyone expected is automatically racism?

It's extremely unfair. 

You can support Kyle Allen and not be a racist. I promise.

Also, while we're on the subject, I have spoken to more than one older african american fan who doesn't care for Cam's behavior because they are just old school and prefer the Barry Sanders school of turn around and hand the football to the ref. Personally I can like and respect both approaches to the game, but are these guys somehow racist against Cam because they just don't care for his personality?

[MountaineerChemist10]

11 hours ago, PanthersNC1984 said:

Below are five QBs stats during their first seasons. Yes I realize that QBs can flame out in a split second and yes I realize Kyle’s sample size is still small and I’m comparing full seasons to Kyle’s several games, but, here we go.

Aaron Rodgers- 4038 yds, 28 TDs, 13 ints, 93 QBr 63.6% completion rate 

Peyton Manning- 3739 yds, 26 TDs, 28 ints, 71 QBr 56.7% completion rate

Drew Brees- 3284 yds, 17 yds, 16 ints, 76.9 QBr, 60.8% completion rate

Tom Brady- 2843 yds, 18 tds, 12 ints, 86.5% QBr, 63.9% completion rate

Kyle Allen- 1291 yds, 9 TDs, 4 ints, 87.8 QBr, 60.9% completion rate

 

Now obviously there are way more factors at play, intangibles of course being a big one. Kyle Allen has shown he can make all the NFL throws, has pretty good pocket awareness and along with very solid stats, he passes the eye test. Oh and he is only 23 years old! TWENTY THREE! 

Of course I realize he could easily be the next Baker Mayfield and flame out at the blink of an eye, but I truly think once he has a full off season practicing and training as the starter, sky is the limit.
 

Congratulations, you can count 

Seriously man. Best to just watch & see what he can do for rest of the season.

[ickmule]

11 hours ago, Call Me James said:

Cam Newton is a better deep ball passer than Kyle Allen with practically the same completion percentage. 

He is, but can’t hit a guy 10 yards away.......

[jfra78]

23 minutes ago, ickmule said:

He is, but can’t hit a guy 10 yards away.......

 

[Ricky Spanish]

So here's the way I personally am looking at what Allen has done so far. It's all a matter of perspective. 

He was a UDFA and didn't make a roster or practice squad at the beginning of the year last year. He was finally brought on to our practice squad on October 30th of last year. So he has only been on an NFL roster for 1 calendar year as of right now, putting him about 6 months behind other drafted 2nd year QBs. 

In this calendar year he has worked his way from the street to the practice squad to the active roster to the back up QB to the starting QB. That in itself is commendable and impressive. The fact that he even looks like a serviceable backup at this point speaks volumes to his work ethic and potential. 

In that time frame, he has gone 6-1 as a starter with a commendable stat line a marginal amount of interceptions. He had a fumbling issue at the beginning of the year, but it looks like he has gotten better in that regard, and that's not the only area he looks to have improved. He is spreading the ball around to his receivers, making good decisions and reads with his throws, and providing our receivers opportunities to run after the catch to pick up more yards with good ball placement. 

One thing that young QB's tend to do is avoid receivers who are covered all-together. Clausen was notorious for this, as was Alex Smith at the beginning of his career. Allen isn't 100% reckless with his throws to covered receivers, but he still has the stones and the confidence in the receivers to throw it their way and give them a chance to make a play on the ball. Of course he's still young and making mistakes, throwing some balls to some guys that he shouldn't, but it really seems like he's learning as he's going along. 

So right now, is he better than a 9 year healthy Vet Cam Newton? Absolutely not. Is he a solid young QB who has potential to be more than a backup? I think so. I honestly have no idea if he can become a franchise QB, we will need to see more improvement as the year goes on. But right now he's performing better than Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, and Baker Mayfield, all QB's drafted before him last year. 

If he continues to play smart and limit his mistakes moving forward, I'll be happy. I hope he improves and so should everyone else. In context of everything, he's been pretty impressive so far and I'm interested to see how much better he can actually get. 

[jtm]

1 hour ago, mav1234 said:

This off season.  If you mean in a game, well... Cam was 2/5 on completions >20 yards vs Stl... so he struggled there relative to his usual. 

That's a stretch to say Cam could make all the throws this off season. 

I would hope every Panthers fan is pulling for Cam to come back 100% and for Allen to ball out the rest of the year.  If this occurs, we have some serious trade bait or a legit back up.   

Is Allen the answer moving forward . . . who knows and I don't make determinations on players this early and especially at the QB position.    

[jfra78]

12 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

So here's the way I personally am looking at what Allen has done so far. It's all a matter of perspective. 

He was a UDFA and didn't make a roster or practice squad at the beginning of the year last year. He was finally brought on to our practice squad on October 30th of last year. So he has only been on an NFL roster for 1 calendar year as of right now, putting him about 6 months behind other drafted 2nd year QBs. 

In this calendar year he has worked his way from the street to the practice squad to the active roster to the back up QB to the starting QB. That in itself is commendable and impressive. The fact that he even looks like a serviceable backup at this point speaks volumes to his work ethic and potential. 

In that time frame, he has gone 6-1 as a starter with a commendable stat line a marginal amount of interceptions. He had a fumbling issue at the beginning of the year, but it looks like he has gotten better in that regard, and that's not the only area he looks to have improved. He is spreading the ball around to his receivers, making good decisions and reads with his throws, and providing our receivers opportunities to run after the catch to pick up more yards with good ball placement. 

One thing that young QB's tend to do is avoid receivers who are covered all-together. Clausen was notorious for this, as was Alex Smith at the beginning of his career. Allen isn't 100% reckless with his throws to covered receivers, but he still has the stones and the confidence in the receivers to throw it their way and give them a chance to make a play on the ball. Of course he's still young and making mistakes, throwing some balls to some guys that he shouldn't, but it really seems like he's learning as he's going along. 

So right now, is he better than a 9 year healthy Vet Cam Newton? Absolutely not. Is he a solid young QB who has potential to be more than a backup? I think so. I honestly have no idea if he can become a franchise QB, we will need to see more improvement as the year goes on. But right now he's performing better than Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, and Baker Mayfield, all QB's drafted before him last year. 

If he continues to play smart and limit his mistakes moving forward, I'll be happy. I hope he improves and so should everyone else. In context of everything, he's been pretty impressive so far and I'm interested to see how much better he can actually get. 

Love this take

[grimesgoat]

If Kyle Allen went undefeated and won the SB this year, we'd still have fans that would tell you Cam would have done it better.

These same huddle "experts" repeatedly claimed that if Cam went down, our backups were trash and the season would be over.  But here we are: 5-3 and in the hunt.  Admit you were wrong.  You know who you are. 

We have a shot because our current QB is playing well right now.  Is he a franchise QB?  Is he a better option than Cam next year?  who knows / who cares.  He's winning - and right now we need wins.

[Call Me James]

2 hours ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

That's a technicality and you know it.

Plus, Brady's "first season" wasn't his first season either.

He's had an entire off season preparing with the first team as well as a full pre season. 

That matters. 

[CPF4LIFE]

2 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Funchess and Benjamin collectively do not represent Cam's starters over the majority of his career. Combined they played in 101 games for the Panthers. Cam has started 125 games for us, which means he's had 250 WR starts. Funchess and Benjamin represent about 40% of the WR starts in his career,  clearly not a majority.

Smitty is a good example of a receiver who could compensate for Cam's lack of accuracy on deep throws and still be productive, but Smitty was an all pro talent and the best WR this franchise has ever had. Ginn had plenty of throws go his way that he could have broke for a TD, but had to adjust to inaccuracy and either wasn't able to haul in or had to settle for the completion with little to no YAC.  Admittedly this was often because Ginn's shortcoming is his hands, but I'm not the one who brought him up, I'm just pointing out what I saw happen over his tenure here, and there were times Cam underthrew and even overthrew him, which in a way is kind of impressive considering how fast Ginn is, but still. 

Cam is a great qb and I would take him at peak form in a heartbeat, but his accuracy has always been the most significant flaw in his game. Asserting otherwise would be pretty head in the sand instead of being realistic about a player's strengths and weaknesses.

 

Say what now?  So We blaming ginns dropsies on cam being inaccurate? This place really has lost it. For the record Ginn dropped plenty of these while he was here in STRIDE.