In retrospect, thank the maker that Cam Newton did not start

[Car123]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Go look at the past team implosions (offense, defense, special teams, coaching) and let me know one where Cam played really well. 

 

All I can find are things like this.. 

 

Or maybe you feel if Cam Newton played instead of Cam Newton they could have won?

https://youtu.be/D8KwJLUZ_UQ

If Cam didn't play well here, we would have lost 38- 7 and you would label it a team implosion.....

[Mr. Scot]

25 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

I was wanting Rivera fired in January. I will be happy when he goes.  Hopefully Cam balls out soon and will justify his salary next season. That would be the best case scenerio. if he can't get healthy or plays poorly the Panthers have tough decisions to make. 

Even so, if you're talking about a new staff, you're talking about people who aren't tied to him and may want to start fresh with their own guy.

Several people have described Newton's future as "in doubt" as it is now. Turnover in the leadership department may not enhance that status.

[mav1234]

6 minutes ago, Car123 said:

https://youtu.be/D8KwJLUZ_UQ

If Cam didn't play well here, we would have lost 38- 7 and you would label it a team implosion.....

That game was close throughout.  Yes, Cam balled out, but we also got key defensive stops near the end.

Our O also spotted them a TD and nearly another.

Not comparable games...scores do not always tell the whole story...

[Snake]

52 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Now we're entering into revisionist history shenanigans, and no good will come from that.

Igo should really stop tap dancing around his agenda and just speak plainly. I could at least begin to respect that. Until then trolls will continue to follow his lead.

Our problem isn't what QB is better. It's that we don't spend money to protect any QB. Cam is a MVP QB and Kyle Allen is a good QB but neither are going to overcome top pass rushers plowing over our tacklea. Thats on coaching and the GM. 

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Even so, if you're talking about a new staff, you're talking about people who aren't tied to him and may want to start fresh with their own guy.

Several people have described Newton's future as "in doubt" as it is now. Turnover in the leadership department may not enhance that status.

I don't think leadership turnover matters nearly as much as how he plays over the 8 or so games after he returns as to how a new staff would approach him.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, ellis said:

The hardest part about the whole situation is helping fans understand how to manage the expectations. There’s a business side of this, and a football side to it, and there’s a lot of unknown ahead of us in terms of Cam. 

People live in a fantasy land, and they think he’s going to put on a magic cape, fly in and save the day. I think he makes the team better instantly, because he’s an elite quarterback. But he has some rust now, he hasn’t been able to practice for a minute, and how much value do you get if he can’t or won’t sprinkle in those 5 to 7 runs a game? 

This needs to be a part of his arsenal, because as much as he’s improved in terms of completion percentage and efficiency, this is the part of the game that makes him so dangerous. Literally moves the chains.

Without it, you’re getting a solid 68-ish% completion QB, thanks in large part to check downs, tunnel screens and shallow crossers. Sorry if that pisses anybody off, but it’s a big part of the formula that worked last year before he went down.

 

All valid.

[ellis]

I’ll say this: if and when Cam does leave, I sense you’ll see a good chunk of fans moving on from the Panthers experience. Not a big enough chunk to warrant keeping him around if he’s not performing well. Cam is the Panthers to a lot of fans. Just something to keep an eye on if and when we get to that point.

[rico6]

Just now, ellis said:

I’ll say this: if and when Cam does leave, I sense you’ll see a good chunk of fans moving on from the Panthers experience. Not a big enough chunk to warrant keeping him around if he’s not performing well. Cam is the Panthers to a lot of fans. Just something to keep an eye on if and when we get to that point.

A fugton of “Panthers fans” and users on this board moved on back in 2011 when Cam was drafted too. That’s just how poo goes. 

[Car123]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

That game was close throughout.  Yes, Cam balled out, but we also got key defensive stops near the end.

Our O also spotted them a TD and nearly another.

Not comparable games...scores do not always tell the whole story...

But if Allen balled out yesterday and if Cam balled out in those games Jeremy Igo pointed out, they would be close games and they wouldn't be considered implosions....

Our defense made key stops yesterday too.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I don't think leadership turnover matters nearly as much as how he plays over the 8 or so games after he returns as to how a new staff would approach him.

See the analysis from Ellis above.

You can help Cam heal from his present injuries, but you can't take away the effects of those injuries, you can't guarantee there won't be other injuries, you can't de-age him, you can't rebuild him, and there's not a whole lot of chance you can restructure his contract to something incentive-based.

it's definitely not simple.

[ellis]

Matt Harmon wrote an article a while back about Newton. I don’t have it in front of me, but I know he included 2018‘s statistics as part of a case he was making. 

I guess the case was “don’t trade Newton?”

Or maybe it was enhancing a narrative that Kyle Allen is overrated?

I don’t really know what the premise was, but it was a very favorable piece on Newton. And I think Harmon is a pretty good writer.

Again, don’t let completion percentages lather you up too much. He had some great moments last year, especially in the first half, but they were working that offense around his bad wing and those completion percentages were high thanks in large part to the scheme, short to intermediate routes, and McCaffrey. And I give Cam credit for evolving into that. 

 

[rico6]

Just now, Car123 said:

But if Allen balled out yesterday and if Cam balled out in those games Jeremy Igo pointed out, they would be close games and they wouldn't be considered implosions....

Walking away with 3 after Luke gifted the O with a short fieldin the 1st, honestly, is where the game got out of hand. No excuses for not putting up 7 when the 49ers had all momentum after the opening drive.

[TheRumGone]

16 minutes ago, ellis said:

People live in a fantasy land, and they think he’s going to put on a magic cape, fly in and save the day. I think he makes the team better instantly, because he’s an elite quarterback. But he has some rust now, he hasn’t been able to practice for a minute, and how much value do you get if he can’t or won’t sprinkle in those 5 to 7 runs a game? 

This needs to be a part of his arsenal, because as much as he’s improved in terms of completion percentage and efficiency, this is the part of the game that makes him so dangerous. Literally moves the chains.

Without it, you’re getting a solid 68-ish% completion QB, thanks in large part to check downs, tunnel screens and shallow crossers. Sorry if that pisses anybody off, but it’s a big part of the formula that worked last year before he went down.

 

You don’t know me. Everything that I’ve said in this thread is logical. We’re talking about a healthy Cam here. Situations matter. How offenses game plan matter. You can’t just say the result would be the same because Kyle Allen does not equal Cam Newton. You know this. It’s factual and it’s not a diss at KA. We have stats and games to back that up. Kyle has kept our playoff hopes alive with managing the game. 

So how do you know with 100% certainty that Cam doesn’t change the dynamics of yesterday’s game. You don’t. That’s what I was getting to with Igo. Because he made blanket statements like it was fact. But of course words get twisted here and people try to save face. 
 

ive been a fan since 2003, so stop all that other nonsense. 

[Fox007]

200% Cam wouldn't have won that. Clear team implosion as is usual for a Rivera team.

It's bizarre to see people act like he hasn't been QB when these happen.(hint: it's happened several times)