SB nation article says you are stupid if you think there's a true QB controversy

[PhillyB]

3 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Can we stop calling people stupid for not agreeing with you? It's really chidish

tongue planted firmly in cheek but ok

[Jeremy Igo]

14 minutes ago, Bronn said:

It isn't about the first 5 games. It is about what happened before that. Lots of people took a pass on Allen. Lots of people who are supposed to know what they are doing.

This is where you are completely wrong. Everything that happened before he stepped on the field for the first time in the NFL is irrelevant. What matters is how he has played. You cannot honestly believe if Kyle Allen could enter the draft right now he would not be selected. 

[MHS831]

26 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Cam for a year or two and extra picks? Yes I agree that there is a lot if risk with Cam now. Nothing is guaranteed, I just want to see what he has left. I just dont see Allen as a long term answer anyways. Again, there is a long list of backups that played well, were highly valued, traded and proved they were not high quality starters. So far, that's what Allen looks like. And yes, he could be the next Tom Brady, but there has only ever been one of him where the list of good backups on good teams that went on to be meh starts with too large of contracts vastly out weighs that comparison statistically.

Cam vs. Allen, Cam wins.  But (as you state) there are unknowns that need to be known.  That is the basis for this debate--it is hard to argue against 9 TDs and O interceptions and 5 wins vs. 0 losses (4 road wins).  Having said that, we know Cam has the better skill set. 

In 2015, after 9 games, Cam's completion percentage was 56.3%. The Panthers were 9-0.  His legs kept a pass rusher frozen, a pass defender in the box.  Without the need to do either, the defense can pressure Cam; he has never been great at reading defenses.  He is often late in seeing the open WR and since timing is important, he tends to add mustard to the throw to make up for the delay. He holds the ball too long to buy time.  That makes him prone to injury.  When he hurt his foot in a preseason game, he was trying to make a play.  Why?  It is so hard to dim the fire in the heater--he has one speed.  Can he learn to protect what he has left? 

In 2015, Cam was 25-26.  He could overcome a lot with his athleticism.  What can 31-year old Cam do? 57% is not going to get the job done, but he has been better with Norv.  I am just worried that he is done.  Glad we have an option---

[PhillyB]

1 minute ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Uh, that takes time. I don't have enough information to say either way. Neither do you. That is the point. Saying he will never be a franchise QB is pretty silly. If we didn't have Cam and Allen was a draft pick you would be over the moon and singing the praises of his prospects right now. 

but the context of the argument isn't is kyle allen a good quarterback. if it was hell yeah, kyle allen is my bitch.

but the context is supplanting a franchise quarterback. the standard has been set at franchise quarterback. the burden of proof for kyle allen is showing the coaches, sample size be damned, that he's a better quarterback. the same goes for huddle posters.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

Kyle Allen being a potential franchise QB is completely irrelevant to the fact that I want Cam Newton to play over Kyle Allen, assuming Cam Newton returns 100% healthy.

[ncfan]

12 minutes ago, raz said:

his shoulder was going downhill after the first game.  you can go re-watch and see.  teams didn't know he couldn't throw deep for a while and were respecting it.   when that became obvious they dared him to beat them with his arm - just like the first 2 games this year.   he's going to have to disprove that going forward.   

Games 6, 7, and 8 prior to the steelers injury game

 

Game 6: 275 pass yards 2/1 TD/int 67.5% comp

Game 7: 219 pass yards 2/0 TD/int 72.4% comp

Game 8: 247 pass yards 2/0 TD/int 76% comp

 

Ps: Allen hasnt completed over 65% in this 4 game stretch

 

Next

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

the hype surrounding allen on this forum is based on emotion. he really hasn't been all that impressive if you're evaluating him as a long term starting option, even when considering his age. i can understand the excitement if the bar is "league average backup" because i do think he has reached or even exceeded that

Right now my bar is "can play well and lead this team to some wins until Cam is healthy" ... and Allen has more than cleared that bar.

I don't know if hes "the future of the franchise" or whatever garbage but until Cam is ready I am happy to ride with him and enjoy his development. 

What he is doing is special, even if any one of his performances hasn't been record shattering.

[raz]

3 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

the hype surrounding allen on this forum is based on emotion. he really hasn't been all that impressive if you're evaluating him as a long term starting option, even when considering his age. i can understand the excitement if the bar is "league average backup" because i do think he has reached or even exceeded that

jimbob when you haven't seen decent qb play in a while - that'll happen, and again you're exaggerating to make your point, a lot.  allen is playing better than more than 1/3 of the starters in the league in his 5th game.    trying to put a ceiling on the kid at this point is disingenuous and why people are sick of cam-stans

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Kyle Allen being a potential franchise QB is completely irrelevant to the fact that I want Cam Newton to play over Kyle Allen, assuming Cam Newton returns 100% healthy.

This please.

Allen could be the greatest qb on earth 3 seasons from now (not what I believe - used for illustrative purposes  lol ) and a healthy Cam is still a better option *to win now*. Allen will have time to show what else he can be.

[MHS831]

14 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

Totally agree. Hope he’s using this time off to self assess. The little things he did as far as drawing defenses offsides went a long way. Needs to go back to that and round out his game. 

In addition to that, other teams know they can substitute when he takes a knee.  And it takes him longer to start reading the pre-snap defense.

[TheRumGone]

5 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

the hype surrounding allen on this forum is based on emotion. he really hasn't been all that impressive if you're evaluating him as a long term starting option, even when considering his age. i can understand the excitement if the bar is "league average backup" because i do think he has reached or even exceeded that

I think he’s shown that this isn’t his ceiling. The sample size is too small to give a definitive take.

but Cam showed from day 1 he is a franchise, Allen has not. 

[d-dave]

I read this article this morning.  It makes some good points, but the biggest one to me is you have to give Cam a chance to show that he's healthy and what he can do for us.

Everyone ready to ship Cam off hasn't learned the lessons of FitzMagic or Matt Moore.  Bucky Brooks was on another show (just popped up in my YT feed) where he made that exact point (and why I am using it as well).  There have been TONS of QBs who have been flashes in the pan, who have have short bursts of brilliance, but they then slide into mediocrity.  We don't know who Kyle Allen will become, but let's not let Cam go right now.

You have to give your Franchise QB a chance earn his job back.  On Cam, he's going to have to prove that he's back to being Super Cam, or at least 6-2 Cam 2018.  If not, you short change yourself, him, and your playoff chances.  Cam has to be 100% before he trots out there.

I think that Cam will practice for a few more weeks with the team before the put him on the field.  Sure, the team has rallied around Allen, and it could be a legitimate controversy when Cam does play again.  But you have to see what he has left to give before you give up on him.  Would you want to see Cam in a Tampa uniform coming for blood twice a year, leading the Bucs to success? 

[MHS831]

12 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

tongue planted firmly in cheek but ok

Your's or Cam's?

 

Could not resist.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

This please.

Allen could be the greatest qb on earth 3 seasons from now (not what I believe - used for illustrative purposes  lol ) and a healthy Cam is still a better option *to win now*. Allen will have time to show what else he can be

This is the boat I am in.  If Kyle Allen is the future, I am completely fine with that.  I love his potential.

But I strongly feel Cam Newton is still the *present*.  And he gives us the best chance to push into a playoff run.  

I get that QBs get older, and eventually you move on.  I just don't feel we are at that stage yet.  If we were 0-6, I may think different.  But we aren't.