SB nation article says you are stupid if you think there's a true QB controversy

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

Not everyone that dislikes cam is because of racism

The people on here that dislike him for disingenuous reasons don't hide those reasons. They're easy to spot

I'd be willing to bet there are more people being accused of that than there are people that are guilty of it.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

the fact that we are already at the "what about a player can truly be known?" phase of this kyle allen saga really says it all. he's not good lol

Do you understand that a statement like "he's not good" is subjective and not objective?

Please answer yes or no.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

In the famous words of John Fox....stats are for losers. Give me wins. I want them crablegs.

Moneyball and sports analytics in general have long since proven that those who ignore stats as an informational tool towards winning when properly used will be left in the dust. The elevation of stats in importance over winning is where stats are for losers. See: current stats of Matt Ryan on a 1-5 Falcons team.

[TheMaulClaw]

5 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Moneyball and sports analytics in general have long since proven that those who ignore stats as an informational tool towards winning when properly used will be left in the dust. The elevation of stats in importance over winning is where stats are for losers. See: current stats of Matt Ryan on a 1-5 Falcons team.

Isnt wins a stat?

[1of10Charnatives]

2 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Isnt wins a stat?

Sure, but obviously for the purposes of this conversation it's a stat placed into a seperate category from things like qb rating, offensive ranking, interceptions etc. It is the stat all other stats feed into.

[MasterAwesome]

56 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

if allen is going to be treated as competition for the starting job once cam is healthy then he absolutely should be evaluated on the exact same terms as cam. his supporters know that's a losing argument though so they want his performance to be measured against other young, udfa's while simply expecting others to accept that he's legitimate competition for ~reasons~

if you want to talk about how much potential or whatever he has, fine, do that. but that doesn't get to serve as a placeholder for high level performance when this roster might be super bowl worthy. im not interested in watching a kyle allen take his lumps at the expense of our competitive window.

I mean, there’s actually a thread on the front page doing just that...a direct comparison between a healthy Cam last year to Kyle Allen this year, and they are quite similar.

[TheMaulClaw]

15 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Sure, but obviously for the purposes of this conversation it's a stat placed into a seperate category from things like qb rating, offensive ranking, interceptions etc. It is the stat all other stats feed into.

Listen. I do think there is validity in some analytics. But also there are fallacies in analytics when we're just reviewing on the surface statistics.

For example, there's a psychological difference between a qb throwing for 224 yards and 250 yards plus.  Kyle Allen's perfect ball to Wright would have gotten him over 250 yards and would have raised his completion percentage by another percent and a half. Because Wright dropped the pass these analytics work against Allen. This isnt what I think real analytics are all about.

There are stats I feel like we can look into. Like sacks. I could make an argument that Kyle Allen is taking less sacks then Cam. People are saying it's because the Oline is suddenly great, but I argue that it's the understanding of the pocket and getting the ball out. Obviously interceptions is also important.

Even touchdown passes aren't the purest barometer. Kyle Allen led a 99 yard drive mostly through the air. It ends in a 1 yard td run. Very easily could have been a PA Olsen back of the endzone pass that landed us a td.

Let's say that Wright catches that beautiful pass and KA caps the 99 yard drive with a td pass as opposed to a touchdown run. Then what would the analytics say about 250 plus yards 3td performance with over a 64 percent completion rate?

 

[twylyght]

37 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Noted, but call me muleheaded, I prefer to make these determinations for myself. No offense to you, but I have had other posters in other forums warn me off of bothering to argue with so and so because they are mental, not because it was true, but because they disliked the person in question. I tend to insist on forming my own opinions of people rather than accepting secondhand assessments.

perfectly fine, sir.  just trying to save you some perspective ahead of time if you care to hear it

[Swaggasaurus]

11 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Listen. I do think there is validity in some analytics. But also there are fallacies in analytics when we're just reviewing on the surface statistics.

For example, there's a psychological difference between a qb throwing for 224 yards and 250 yards plus.  Kyle Allen's perfect ball to Wright would have gotten him over 250 yards and would have raised his completion percentage by another percent and a half. Because Wright dropped the pass these analytics work against Allen. This isnt what I think real analytics are all about.

There are stats I feel like we can look into. Like sacks. I could make an argument that Kyle Allen is taking less sacks then Cam. People are saying it's because the Oline is suddenly great, but I argue that it's the understanding of the pocket and getting the ball out. Obviously interceptions is also important.

Even touchdown passes aren't the purest barometer. Kyle Allen led a 99 yard drive mostly through the air. It ends in a 1 yard td run. Very easily could have been a PA Olsen back of the endzone pass that landed us a td.

Let's say that Wright catches that beautiful pass and KA caps the 99 yard drive with a td pass as opposed to a touchdown run. Then what would the analytics say about 250 plus yards 3td performance with over a 64 percent completion rate?

 

POCKET MOBILITY is so important in the NFL

[1of10Charnatives]

14 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Listen. I do think there is validity in some analytics. But also there are fallacies in analytics when we're just reviewing on the surface statistics.

For example, there's a psychological difference between a qb throwing for 224 yards and 250 yards plus.  Kyle Allen's perfect ball to Wright would have gotten him over 250 yards and would have raised his completion percentage by another percent and a half. Because Wright dropped the pass these analytics work against Allen. This isnt what I think real analytics are all about.

There are stats I feel like we can look into. Like sacks. I could make an argument that Kyle Allen is taking less sacks then Cam. People are saying it's because the Oline is suddenly great, but I argue that it's the understanding of the pocket and getting the ball out. Obviously interceptions is also important.

Even touchdown passes aren't the purest barometer. Kyle Allen led a 99 yard drive mostly through the air. It ends in a 1 yard td run. Very easily could have been a PA Olsen back of the endzone pass that landed us a td.

Let's say that Wright catches that beautiful pass and KA caps the 99 yard drive with a td pass as opposed to a touchdown run. Then what would the analytics say about 250 plus yards 3td performance with over a 64 percent completion rate?

 

Nothing I disagree with here. I think we're basically on the same page.

[g5jamz]

Kyle's passes are passing the eye test.  You have to watch the game and not focus on the box score numbers.  Like looking at the box score of baseball.  One guy goes 2-2 with a oppo field blooper and a seeing-eye grounder, versus a guy crushing it and hitting a liner to SS and the CF makes a diving catch on a gapper.  Want the test?  Play KA vs SF and let's see where we are after that.  Cam should not come back after this bye and start.  Period.  I don't care if he is 100%.  You don't bench the hot hand.  

[therealmjl]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Houston and Jacksonville have good defenses (ranked 12th and 8th).  Tampa took away the run and made us one dimensional.  Kyle made plays and did not throw the ball away.   You can only beat the team in front of you--

you've already been dismissed

[therealmjl]

53 minutes ago, Peppers90 NC said:

You could just call him a racist and end it right there.

yeah lol i'm racist 

[therealmjl]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not touching that statement.

You had no problem touching it with Deangelo. Just sayin'