Cam should start vs SF and thoughts on Kyle Allen

[Jeremy Igo]

14 minutes ago, Rags said:

I don't entirely disagree that he's not a franchise QB.

But you don't need a franchise QB to win a Superbowl.

I don't know if he is a franchise QB or not. This is basically his rookie year and he looks better than most guys drafted early to be franchise QBs. 

I do know I enjoy winning, though. 

[raz]

Just now, SmartyHurney said:

Yeah he did, often. He does it more when he has more time on the clock. Allen has ?never?? I can't even recall an instance where he changed a play.

you've got your mind made up.  that's cool.   

[SmartyHurney]

Just now, raz said:

you've got your mind made up.  that's cool.   

I'm not the one fuging lying out of my ass. This isn't anything against Allen, he's not being asked to do much. Cam audibles all the fuging time.

Do you even watch the games? What the fug is wrong with this place.

[SmartyHurney]

The Panthers this year have the best defense since 2013, the best offensive line since 2015 (post moving Williams from left tackle, thanks Rivera), possibly the best WR corps since 2011 (maybe earlier, Smith was still amazing in 2011, but everyone else was not), and a great gadget do all running back. It's not shocking that they're winning. This team has drafted well the last two years, and made good free agent acquisitions.

[TheMaulClaw]

21 minutes ago, OceanPanther said:

Tampa's  D shut down our running game again....  

I'd rather have Healthy Cam running the "  read option "  and our chances with Cam than Kyle.

Kyle's passing ability is no better than Cam's ..  He throws high, short etc..  Kyle's be remarkable...  Kyle's not had to lead us with a come from behind 4th quarter win..  Our  D has been balling out.  How many shore fields has the Offense been given..

Cam ( healthy ) is the better QB ..

Kyle hasnt had to lead us on a game winning drives because he always seems to answer on big drives throughout the game. You can't say he doesnt have the ability to do it. Not his fault he hasnt been in the bnb position yet.

That said...Cam used to be clutch. Not anymore. Look at how many games we lost last year by less then a possession. Heck...look at the first Tampa game this year.

[GoobyPls]

8 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

So you're admitting that you have no clue..you just like to disagree for the entertainment. Because almost all draft comparisons are bs.

 

There are some valid comparisons that exist. Like if you could break down in their actual play styles why Keenum and Allen are similar. I dont think they are similar players when it comes to film. Allen has more arm strength and has more size. I think Keenum is a lefty too. I could be wrong about that.

Also you might be able to compare the two after a longer body of work. Even if their style are different....but right now you've got nothing to go off with that Keenum comparison.  In fact the only comparison you could make,and its inaccurate too, is Kurt Warner. Who had Marshall Faulk. Like we have CMC.

Allen hasn’t shown that arm strength in fact he has under thrown a bunch of passes outside the numbers. Keenum is actually a fair comparison since both inherited stacked rosters and were winning immediately. Keenum was actually making more downfield throws than Allen If you want to get real then technical about it. I go nothing to go off but almost exact stats in similar situations. You just don’t want to hear it cause the outcome might turn out the same 

 

 

 

You mean Warner who won mvp his first season as a starter and threw 41 TD in an era when rarely anyone threw that much? That Warner???

[SmartyHurney]

Just now, TheMaulClaw said:

Kyle hasnt had to lead us on a game winning drives because he always seems to answer on big drives throughout the game. You can't say he doesnt have the ability to do it. Not is fault he hasnt been in the bnb position yet.

That said...Cam used to be clutch. Not anymore. Look at how many games we lost last year by less then a possession. Heck...look at the first Tampa game this year.

I mean, he got 7 turnovers, 4 short field turnovers yesterday. There were ?7? drives that stalled without points, and 10 drives without a touchdown for the Panthers. Kyle Allen was I think ?3?/15? on third down vs a terrible pass defense.

[GoobyPls]

3 minutes ago, SmartyHurney said:

The Panthers this year have the best defense since 2013, the best offensive line since 2015 (post moving Williams from left tackle, thanks Rivera), possibly the best WR corps since 2011 (maybe earlier, Smith was still amazing in 2011, but everyone else was not), and a great gadget do all running back. It's not shocking that they're winning. This team has drafted well the last two years, and made good free agent acquisitions.

This is the most stack team in the Cam era and Allen is reaping the benefits of it. You give Cam this roster in 2017 and we are SB champs, you give Cam this roster in 2015 and we go undefeated and Cam shatters nearly every record.

[TheMaulClaw]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Allen hasn’t shown that arm strength in fact he has under thrown a bunch of passes outside the numbers. Keenum is actually a fair comparison since both inherited stacked rosters and were winning immediately. Keenum was actually making more downfield throws than Allen If you want to get real then technical about it. I go nothing to go off but almost exact stats in similar situations. You just don’t want to hear it cause the outcome might turn out the same 

 

 

 

You mean Warner who won mvp his first season as a starter and threw 41 TD in an era when rarely anyone threw that much? That Warner???

Yeah that Warner the only other undrafted player to win his first 5 games. Also came into a stacked team.

I think it's funny that you're calling us stacked. After the first two games it was Cam has no help and DJ and Samuel actually may not be as good as we thought. That's all we heard on the CH. Now that Allen has come in and spread the ball around were stacked and have a decent O line.

[CRA]

28 minutes ago, SmartyHurney said:

Duh? They're giving Allen a simplified playbook. He's not being asked to read a defense or audible out of a play. The playcalling obviously will be much faster.

Cam prior to Shula never had problems. In the Shula years Cam didn't have a problem when he could call his own plays.

Cam wasn’t  out there calling his own plays 5 games into his career 

[SmartyHurney]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Cam wasn’t  out there calling his own plays 5 games into his career 

No poo? Like I said Kyle Allen isn't asked to do much. He's not even being asked to RPO or read option hardly at all. Cam at least had that responsibility.

Most of the plays for Allen are pretty basic, but there's a lot of motion and movement before the ball is snapped. Right now the playmakers are being asked to step up and execute.

[GoobyPls]

9 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Yeah that Warner the only other undrafted player to win his first 5 games. Also came into a stacked team.

I think it's funny that you're calling us stacked. After the first two games it was Cam has no help and DJ and Samuel actually may not be as good as we thought. That's all we heard on the CH. Now that Allen has come in and spread the ball around were stacked and have a decent O line.

Yeah in those 5 games Warner was averaging over 300 yards 3 TD and completing 75% of his passes. Your just throwing numbers out there with zero context just to make yourself look right

 

 

Who the fu*k said Cam had no help this season? Everyone included myself was blaming Cam for the those loses especially vs Tampa 

 

Your throwing sh*t at the wall hoping it sticks

[d-dave]

I think Kyle needs to start until Cam is 100%.  I'm still waiting to see Allen have to deal with some adversity, but he's playing well, playing within himself, and doing a great job.  Kyle has had a few big boy throws (like the one to Wright on the side line yesterday, beautiful pass), but he's not having to put the game on his shoulders the way a franchise QB is supposed to do.  I'm still waiting for that.  If Allen can will the Panthers to a win, I'll be much more willing to let Newton walk.

I think Kyle has shown us how important it is for Cam to have a back up.  What if Cam ends up missing 2-3 games a year for the next few years, but still play at a high level when he's in?  Cam is like your exotic sports car.  Runs beautifully, but needs more maintenance.  Allen is your daily driver.  Not exactly sexy, but he gets the job done very well.

Let's keep our daily driver until our sports car is out of the shop.

[DeAngelo Beason]

Cam Newton will not return as a legitimate starting QB.  Sorry folks.