Kyle Allen's Contract

[TheRed]

13 minutes ago, raz said:

you're kinda leaving out the crowd whose feeling were so hurt over anyone playing but cam all they could do was crap on kyle from the very beginning.   i don't care to remember if you're one of those or not, but they were here.  the crowd who is so upset by some being ready to move on from cam that they just crapped on everything qb related non-cam, and called everyone racist who didn't see things the way they do.   i think a lot of this has less to do with the actual qb's and more to do with people's feelings about their favorite players.    

Back in September you were singing the baby goat anthem and declaring him a franchise quarterback, now everyone else has hurt feelings. That's funny.

[MHS831]

Of course, my point for starting the thread was based on optimism---4 games and a 108 qb rating is very positive---and I attribute his downfall to the OL, defense, and coaching as much as his poor play---but at the time, you know your starting QB is hurt again and that he could be done---possible---still is.  You know that Allen is going to be cheaper now than in at the end of the season, when he is a free agent.  Your other QB is a 3rd round rookie.

Without the wisdom and virtue that hindsight provides---in that situation---do you try to lock down a QB that was 5-0 as a starter with a 108 QB rating, (nobody said megadeal--I actually said on the cheap--we could get him on a backup salary--he would like the security, I would think.)  Or do you let your franchise QB head into yet another surgery with his health in question and put all your chips on Grier?   At that time, the move to re-sign him was not ridiculous.   You do what the situation requires.  Yes, looking back and taking all variables that are not negative out of the equation and removing the decision from the context--which was fragile--eliminates the boldness of risk.  I knew it was risky--so did others.  And do you know that he will not go somewhere and have a solid career?  No--because that is not hindsight.  

Once again, Terry Bradshaw threw 6 TD passes against 24 interceptions with a 38.1% completion rating.  He was a first rounder.  I wonder what the Steeler fans said about him?  Tepper was one of them.  Guess what color blazer Bradshaw wears today?  There is some hindsight for you all.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

16 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

By asking questions that provide someone making an overly optimistic not very supportable assertion the chance to reevaluate what they’ve said and come back to earth. Here’s how I might respond to the statement you’re quoting:

Do you think that fewer than half a season’s worth of games is enough to declare an UDFA a future franchise Qb?

Do you think that discarding or benching a former league MVP even when healthy in favor of said UDFA is likely to be prudent long term?

Can you provide any historical evidence of a team making a similar move with positive result?

Given that many unknown qb’s have burst onto the scene with short lived impressive streaks only to fade long term while rarely has a team lost a franchise qb by failing to extend him mid season when he’s still u dear contract for the following season, can you explain your reasoning in advocating for immediate extension?

Approaching things this way attacks the flawed premise without attacking either the poster or the player in question

But that happened.  They were fine with a 4 game snap shot because "all he does is win".  They were fine with benching a former league mvp because "you dont sit a hot hand for a guy coming back from injury that will take multiple games to get back into the flow of things".

Those questions were answered by the people promoting Allen as the savior of the Franchise and that we needed to ditch Cam immediately.

 

 

[MountaineerChemist10]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:20 PM, MHS831 said:

Making $450K---he needs an extension now. 

He is earning it, and we need to lock him into a long-term deal.  You can front load it and guarantee less---extend him for 4 years.   The longer you wait, the more expensive he gets.

 

Um yeah. No thanks.

Maybe a RFA 1-year extension, but that's it. He won 5 games, but then farted away the rest with fumbles & picks.

[TheRed]

4 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

But that happened.  They were fine with a 4 game snap shot because "all he does is win".  They were fine with benching a former league mvp because "you dont sit a hot hand for a guy coming back from injury that will take multiple games to get back into the flow of things".

Those questions were answered by the people promoting Allen as the savior of the Franchise and that we needed to ditch Cam immediately.

The fitting irony in it all is not only was he not the anointed one like they had hoped, but that feel good win streak knocked us out of a potential top overall pick.

For some that was worth it because he just does things the right way.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

The fitting irony in it all is not only was he not the anointed one like they had hoped, but that feel good win streak knocked us out of a potential top overall pick.

For some that was worth it because he just does things the right way.

Remember.  Kyle Allen just throws a more catch-able ball.

 

[1of10Charnatives]

4 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

But that happened.  They were fine with a 4 game snap shot because "all he does is win".  They were fine with benching a former league mvp because "you dont sit a hot hand for a guy coming back from injury that will take multiple games to get back into the flow of things".

Those questions were answered by the people promoting Allen as the savior of the Franchise and that we needed to ditch Cam immediately.

 

 

So what were their answers? If the answers were unreasonable then it’s fair to say “that doesn’t seem reasonable to me and here’s why..”

Part of the point here is not about who’s right or wrong, but how the interaction goes. Regardless of how right you were, or how wrong the other guy was, in your whole life have you ever (metaphorically speaking) stuck your finger in someone’s chest and said “you’re wrong and you’re an idiot (or racist)” and had them say “ yeah, you’re right, I’m a dumb racist who got it completely wrong.”?

Onthe other hand, if you scratch your chin and thoughtfully offer some reasons why they might wanna re-examine that, then you leave them a path back to being reasonable, instead of forcing them into irrational face saving mode.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

1 minute ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

So what were their answers? If the answers were unreasonable then it’s fair to say “that doesn’t seem reasonable to me and here’s why..”

Part of the point here is not about who’s right or wrong, but how the interaction goes. Regardless of how right you were, or how wrong the other guy was, in your whole life have you ever (metaphorically speaking) stuck your finger in someone’s chest and said “you’re wrong and you’re an idiot (or racist)” and had them say “ yeah, you’re right, I’m a dumb racist who got it completely wrong.”?

Onthe other hand, if you scratch your chin and thoughtfully offer some reasons why they might wanna re-examine that, then you leave them a path back to being reasonable, instead of forcing them into irrational face saving mode

Maybe I am misunderstanding where you are coming from.

Most of the shitting on Kyle Allen was done based on statistical facts.  His turnover rate (fumbles and ints).  His lack of actually passing well, etc.  

It was only after people continued to be hypocritical in their support of Allen I saw people bring out the "racist" card.  (IE, when the Panthers win..its soley because of Allen.  When they lose its >every excuse in the book, besides Allen even if Allen had a bad game<.

When I am referring to people shitting on Allen, I am referring to people talking about Allen.  Shitting on the poster with idiot/racist/etc accusations (to me) is not shitting on Allen.  Its shitting on the poster.  Which I feel is different.  And is also something I try to keep out of.

[TheRed]

Back to the topic at hand. This thread was created after Allen had started a whopping 4 games in the NFL.

Lucrative extension after 4 starts? Seriously?

But those "player only" Cam fans are the real problem. 

[Ricky Spanish]

1 hour ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Being completely objective, he has shown promise as a back up.  And he may get better.  I doubt he would ever be a full time starter for any team.  But with experience, he could be a qb who gives us a shot to win if the starter is out.  Which is about all you can ask from the backup qb.  

Pretty much this. Starter goes out, solid backups give you a 50/50 shot at winning any given Sunday.

Grading Allen as a Starter - Oof

Grading Allen as a Backup - Yeah, okay, he did alright all things considered. 

[onmyown]

46 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Back to the topic at hand. This thread was created after Allen had started a whopping 4 games in the NFL.

Lucrative extension after 4 starts? Seriously?

But those "player only" Cam fans are the real problem. 

yea this one topic outweighs the mindless moron cam fans, who never watched a lick of NFL football much less panthers game, that no panther fan can have a conversation with about any other aspect of the team... that have plagued this forum since 2011.

this thread is way more embarrassing than all those cam fans (60%) of the fanbase who will disappear after he’s gone
 

way more embarrassing and overreactive  to mention a contract after 4 decent games than to poo on a player and threaten not to watch the team, calling the franchise garbage because you’re a butthurt fanboy

yup, you should pay more attention to what these butthurt fanboys actually post...way more embarrassing than a dumb hindsight thread like this

[Happy Panther]

He was like the 3rd worst rated player on the team.  

[TheRed]

16 minutes ago, onmyown said:

yea this one topic outweighs the mindless moron cam fans, who never watched a lick of NFL football much less panthers game, that no panther fan can have a conversation with about any other aspect of the team... that have plagued this forum since 2011.

this thread is way more embarrassing than all those cam fans (60%) of the fanbase who will disappear after he’s gone
 

way more embarrassing and overreactive  to mention a contract after 4 decent games than to poo on a player and threaten not to watch the team, calling the franchise garbage because you’re a butthurt fanboy

yup, you should pay more attention to what these butthurt fanboys actually post...way more embarrassing than a dumb hindsight thread like this

Who are these Cam fans you are referring to? I've been following the Panthers since I was a kid long before Newton. I struggled like any other fan through the ups and downs of the Delhomme era and even cheered Jimmy Clausen as our starter. You joined last September. Who made you the final word on Carolina Panthers fandom?

When Allen was playing well he received praise, there were even "Cam fans" like myself and others wondering aloud if he could be the one to take the reigns from Cam when the time came. Unfortunately it didn't work out and we began to lose not just because of our struggling OL and run defense, but also directly because of Allen's costly mistakes. That's the reality no matter how much you may hate to hear it, and that unmistakable truth is unavoidable just like the reality we are grappling with in regards to Cam's future with the team.

So maybe take a deep breath, and try to get a few synapses firing in that brain of yours.

[MasterAwesome]

3 hours ago, TheRed said:

The mental gymnastics needed to try to explain why Kyle Allen isn't actually as bad as his 31st QBR ranking amongst 32 quarterbacks to the point you are dragging Tom Brady into this with his 6 Super Bowl rings is so stupid it could only be fueled by extreme bias.

You really hanging your hat on a stat that paints Cam as mediocre at best? Is your argument that Allen sucks ass but Newton is only slightly below average? If so, you’re doing great!