Kyle Allen's Contract

[KillerKat]

lol "he's earned it" lmaooooo

We can find any other scrub in free agency to turn the ball over as much as Allen without spending much.

[Ricky Spanish]

Being completely objective here, shitting all over a 23 year old essential rookie like he'll never improve is pretty short sighted. There's a good chance he can get better with more experience and better coaching around him. Not saying he'll get so much better that he'll be great, but his ceiling is probably at least a little bit higher than his output this past season. If that's the case, he's a solid option as a backup moving forward.

Nothing wrong with that. 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

So because he threw picks as a young QB, he sucks? In bad conditions, young qbs suck.

I posted a while back a statistic that featured some young qbs on bad teams starting for the first time.

1. had 28 picks his first year.

2. Had a completion percentage of  47.5 and his picks doubled his TDs.

3.  Had 24 interceptions vs. 6 TDs and completed 38.1% of his passes. 

All had bad defenses, weak OLs.  All had fans screaming for their heads, telling everyone they sucked. 

All are in (or headed to) Canton. 

Manning, Elway, Bradshaw, and none had 4-game winning streaks.

So you could be wrong--these guys were all first rounders, so their teams stayed with them longer than an undrafted rookie.  Things have to be in place for a qb to succeed--especially a young qb getting his first starts

I think you are missing where I am coming from.

I am pushing back specifically against the people that are saying Kyle Allen is the future franchise QB of the Panthers.  Remember when people were saying that even if Cam were to come back 100% healthy..Kyle Allen should remain the starter?  Yeah.  Those guys.

I am not saying he sucks.  I am saying that is was completely idiotic to say that Allen is the future of the Panthers and needed to be given a lucrative contract based on 3-4 games.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

13 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Being completely objective here, shitting all over a 23 year old essential rookie like he'll never improve is pretty short sighted. There's a good chance he can get better with more experience and better coaching around him. Not saying he'll get so much better that he'll be great, but his ceiling is probably at least a little bit higher than his output this past season. If that's the case, he's a solid option as a backup moving forward.

Nothing wrong with that

Most Kyle Allen shitting was directly because of people shitting on Cam Newton and proclaiming Kyle Allen the future of the franchise.

If those people had been "completely objective" and toned down their bad takes, no one would be shitting on Kyle Allen.

When the Panthers won due to some amazing play by the defense?  Allen was the future.

When the defense didn't play elite and the Panthers lost?  Gotta blame it on everyone but Allen.  Cause he will get better.  Or something.

[1of10Charnatives]

7 minutes ago, TheRed said:

The mental gymnastics needed to try to explain why Kyle Allen isn't actually as bad as his 31st QBR ranking amongst 32 quarterbacks to the point you are dragging Tom Brady into this with his 6 Super Bowl rings is so stupid it could only be fueled by extreme bias.

Sorry Red but no. It could also just a easily be fueled by people doubling down on an earlier call that doesn’t look good atm. If the extreme bias you're referring to is not wanting to admit you’re wrong, must of us are guilty of that on a regular basis. It’s not the brightest move in the world but calling it extreme stupidity is calling the vast majority of humans stupid. This is what people do, especially when called out in a confrontational way.

Both of you are posters who bring something positive to the table for the forum. You had a strong disagreement on this topic and there are undeniable facts that support your position. That doesn’t mean otherwise rational people should be expected to suddenly agree with you about how wrong they were if you pursue it in the confrontational way typical of the internet. Human nature doesn’t work that way, and I’m sure your own experience backs that up.

@MHS831 whatever the contributing factors may have been, Allen did not perform in a way that merits an extension or expecting him to grow into a franchise qb. It’s possible he could develop if put into better situations but it’s also just as likely the team could make a grave mistake by putting limited game reps into hoping that becomes the case. 

 

[TheRed]

20 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Being completely objective here, shitting all over a 23 year old essential rookie like he'll never improve is pretty short sighted. There's a good chance he can get better with more experience and better coaching around him. Not saying he'll get so much better that he'll be great, but his ceiling is probably at least a little bit higher than his output this past season. If that's the case, he's a solid option as a backup moving forward.

Nothing wrong with that. 

If we were actually being "completely objective" in this discussion then we would be calling some of this bias what it really is. Racism. Because there's a very specific reason why undrafted Kyle Allen is somehow linked with Tom Brady while Cam Newton was forever linked to Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, and Michael Vick predraft. But we'll keep things light as not to ruffle feathers.

The argument isn't that he will never improve. The argument is you can't hitch your wagon to him while moving the goal posts for what have been the standards for starting quarterbacks in Carolina for the last decade. Where everything from press conference attire to level of emotion displayed on the football field has been microanalyzed into oblivion.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

Most Kyle Allen shitting was directly because of people shitting on Cam Newton and proclaiming Kyle Allen the future of the franchise.

If those people had been "completely objective" and toned down their bad takes, no one would be shitting on Kyle Allen.

When the Panthers won due to some amazing play by the defense?  Allen was the future.

When the defense didn't play elite and the Panthers lost?  Gotta blame it on everyone but Allen.  Cause he will get better.  Or something.

The issue I have with this is the notion that the proper response to people shitting on Cam and touting Allen as the future is to poo on Allen. If people are making knee jerk too overly optimistic extreme proclamations, is the best thing to do really to take the exact opposite overly pessimistic poo on Allen position?

That creates an inherently nonsensical hypothesis that only one of the two players can succeed and one can fail when I reality they are largely uncorrelated things. 

[Davidson Deac II]

Being completely objective, he has shown promise as a back up.  And he may get better.  I doubt he would ever be a full time starter for any team.  But with experience, he could be a qb who gives us a shot to win if the starter is out.  Which is about all you can ask from the backup qb.  

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

Just now, 1of10Charnatives said:

The issue I have with this is the notion that the proper response to people shitting on Cam and touting Allen as the future is to poo on Allen. If people are making knee jerk too overly optimistic extreme proclamations, is the best thing to do really to take the exact opposite overly pessimistic poo on Allen position?

That creates an inherently nonsensical hypothesis that only one of the two players can succeed and one can fail when I reality they are largely uncorrelated things. 

If this statement was made, there would have been no poo-ing on Allen

"I think Kyle Allen is a suitable back up, and can improve over time"

Instead, this statement was made:

"Kyle Allen is a future franchise QB.  He deserves to start even if Cam Newton comes back 100% healthy.  We need to sign him to a contract, asap"

The only way to disagree with that is literally by poo-ing on Kyle Allen.  How else do you disagree that Allen is in fact..not a franchise QB right now?  That he does not deserve to start over a 100% healthy Newton?  That he does not deserve a lucrative contract after 4 games?  You bring up his less savory stats.  Which will be seen as shitting on him.

[raz]

18 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

If this statement was made, there would have been no poo-ing on Allen

"I think Kyle Allen is a suitable back up, and can improve over time"

Instead, this statement was made:

"Kyle Allen is a future franchise QB.  He deserves to start even if Cam Newton comes back 100% healthy.  We need to sign him to a contract, asap"

The only way to disagree with that is literally by poo-ing on Kyle Allen.  How else do you disagree that Allen is in fact..not a franchise QB right now?  That he does not deserve to start over a 100% healthy Newton?  That he does not deserve a lucrative contract after 4 games?  You bring up his less savory stats.  Which will be seen as shitting on him.

you're kinda leaving out the crowd whose feeling were so hurt over anyone playing but cam all they could do was crap on kyle from the very beginning.   i don't care to remember if you're one of those or not, but they were here.  the crowd who is so upset by some being ready to move on from cam that they just crapped on everything qb related non-cam, and called everyone racist who didn't see things the way they do.   i think a lot of this has less to do with the actual qb's and more to do with people's feelings about their favorite players.    

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

If this statement was made, there would have been no poo-ing on Allen

"I think Kyle Allen is a suitable back up, and can improve over time"

Instead, this statement was made:

"Kyle Allen is a future franchise QB.  He deserves to start even if Cam Newton comes back 100% healthy.  We need to sign him to a contract, asap"

The only way to disagree with that is literally by poo-ing on Kyle Allen.  How else do you disagree that Allen is in fact..not a franchise QB right now?  That he does not deserve to start over a 100% healthy Newton?  That he does not deserve a lucrative contract after 4 games?  You bring up his less savory stats.  Which will be seen as shitting on him.

By asking questions that provide someone making an overly optimistic not very supportable assertion the chance to reevaluate what they’ve said and come back to earth. Here’s how I might respond to the statement you’re quoting:

Do you think that fewer than half a season’s worth of games is enough to declare an UDFA a future franchise Qb?

Do you think that discarding or benching a former league MVP even when healthy in favor of said UDFA is likely to be prudent long term?

Can you provide any historical evidence of a team making a similar move with positive result?

Given that many unknown qb’s have burst onto the scene with short lived impressive streaks only to fade long term while rarely has a team lost a franchise qb by failing to extend him mid season when he’s still u dear contract for the following season, can you explain your reasoning in advocating for immediate extension?

Approaching things this way attacks the flawed premise without attacking either the poster or the player in question.

[Jimmy]

Fug that, we are in cap hell

[MHS831]

41 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I think you are missing where I am coming from.

I am pushing back specifically against the people that are saying Kyle Allen is the future franchise QB of the Panthers.  Remember when people were saying that even if Cam were to come back 100% healthy..Kyle Allen should remain the starter?  Yeah.  Those guys.

I am not saying he sucks.  I am saying that is was completely idiotic to say that Allen is the future of the Panthers and needed to be given a lucrative contract based on 3-4 games.

I got you and see your point.  I was responding to "all" more than you.  I should have been more clear.

[Happy Panther]