Kyle Allens film study (it's not good)

[ClawOn]

Kyle Allen is the first QB in NFL history to start his career 4-0 with 0 interceptions. 

Feel free to hate anyway. 

[Moo Daeng]

And this propaganda is not necessary. Newton is in a boot and not close to returning. 

[lightsout]

I'm convinced that what is eating the Cam Jock Force alive is the facts. Those are:

1. Allen is winning and Cam, while hurt, wasn't. This excites people and yes, validates the 8 year long Cam haters. They're gonna exist so hating on Allen as much as they have always hated Newton is stupid unless you're more interested in Cam than the Panthers.

2. The offense looks different than what it looks like under Cam and it's good. Not as flashy, but more efficient.

3. Cam is hurt and has been hurt for over a year now. There's a real possibility that he never returns to form and no guarantee that he remains healthy given his physical play style. Catch 22 because that play style is what makes him great.

[iamhubby1]

    See, I don't get this. Folks continue to say "Without the threat to run,  Cam is not great". Then, how can Cam have all these passing records? It just does not make any sense to me.

 

    Hate Cam all you want. It is your right. But please, quit making things up.

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, lightsout said:

I'm convinced that what is eating the Cam Jock Force alive is the facts. Those are:

1. Allen is winning and Cam, while hurt, wasn't. This excites people and yes, validates the 8 year long Cam haters. They're gonna exist so hating on Allen as much as they have always hated Newton is stupid unless you're more interested in Cam than the Panthers.

2. The offense looks different than what it looks like under Cam and it's good. Not as flashy, but more efficient.

3. Cam is hurt and has been hurt for over a year now. There's a real possibility that he never returns to form and no guarantee that he remains healthy given his physical play style. Catch 22 because that play style is what makes him great.

Dan Morgan was great, but he couldn't stay healthy so he was replaced by Jon Beason.

Beason was great too, but he got overpaid and injured, so we drafted Luke Kuechly.

And someday Luke Kuechly isn't gonna be able to do it anymore. The same can be said of Christian McCaffrey, DJ Moore, Curtis Samuel, James Bradberry and pretty much anybody else on the squad right now. Every single day each one of them is a day closer to the end of their time is a Panther, or their careers on general.

Whether it be sooner or whether it be later, that day will come.

Heck, take a look back at all of the guys from the 2003 Super Bowl squad. They gave us some great memories, but over time they got hurt, got cut, got traded, retired or signed somewhere else. I honestly can't think of a single one of them that had the stereotypical "happy ending" to their career.

This is how football works people, and it's not going to change.

I'll grant there are some people who only became fans of the Panthers because of Newton. Maybe some of those people will stick around when he's gone, maybe they won't. I would expect though, that those fans will be the most resistant to the idea of his being replaced.

Make no mistake though folks, he will be.

It may or may not be by Kyle Allen or Will Grier, but it will be by somebody. Unfortunately, given his recent injury history it also might not be all that far in the future.

And all the denial in the world won't stop it.

You can make a hundred threads about how Allen, Grier, or any other potential Panther quarterback is the worst thing that ever happened to football, and it won't change a damn thing. Reality doesn't stop to ask whether you're ready for it to happen.

Newton still could go out on top, but the odds are against him. Not necessarily because of his situation, but because that hardly ever happens. Look around the league and you'll see. Happy endings to NFL careers are few and far between.

Like I said, that's football. I've watched for enough years that I'm used to it. If you're not now, someday you will be.

Enjoy your favorite players while you have the chance, people. Cause no matter how much you want them to be, they won't be around forever.

(and to be clear, that's not the fault of the guy who replaces them)

[cookinbrak]

And what about Marla Hooch? What a hitter!

[lightsout]

2 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

    See, I don't get this. Folks continue to say "Without the threat to run,  Cam is not great". Then, how can Cam have all these passing records? It just does not make any sense to me.

 

    Hate Cam all you want. It is your right. But please, quit making things up.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cam is one of the best to ever do it when he is hot. The issue is, game to game and honestly drive to drive, he's been inconsistent. For sure bad drives happen but not at the extremes of Cam Newton. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

 

Cam has records because he's great. But if you think for a second that his records and success are because he is great at standing in the pocket and delivering all game every game, you're blind or dishonest. Cam's threat as a runner opened up defenses. Teams FINALLY figured us out as of the SB. Since then, Cam has half of one season of being really damn good throwing. That coming three years after the SB.

 

A lot of QBs benefit from playaction to elite RBs, but very few make the front 7 of every defense question their approach because THEY are the biggest run threat, on top of the RBs. Cam's greatness is and always will be tied to his legs. Quit acting like you don't know that.

 

EDIT: I have a history of supporting Cam. Here, at work, anywhere. I'm known as a "Cam guy". But I'm a Panthers guy first and I'm telling you what you know but are too attached to admit.

[iamhubby1]

10 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cam is one of the best to ever do it when he is hot. The issue is, game to game and honestly drive to drive, he's been inconsistent. For sure bad drives happen but not at the extremes of Cam Newton. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

 

Cam has records because he's great. But if you think for a second that his records and success are because he is great at standing in the pocket and delivering all game every game, you're blind or dishonest. Cam's threat as a runner opened up defenses. Teams FINALLY figured us out as of the SB. Since then, Cam has half of one season of being really damn good throwing. That coming three years after the SB.

 

A lot of QBs benefit from playaction to elite RBs, but very few make the front 7 of every defense question their approach because THEY are the biggest run threat, on top of the RBs. Cam's greatness is and always will be tied to his legs. Quit acting like you don't know that.

 

    You know what all crazy people have in common? They get confused when you don't understand them after they explain themselves. Just an interesting thought.

 

    You can quantify Cam' accomplishments if you wish. He still has those passing records. So saying he can't be a pocket passer is just plain wrong.

 

    His running may be an added bonus. But if he couldn't pass, he would not be able to run. 

[lightsout]

1 minute ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

    You know what all crazy people have in common? They cannot figure out why you cannot understand them when they explain themselves to you. 

 

    You can quantify Cam' accomplishments if you wish. He still has those records. So saying he can't be a pocket passer is just plain wrong.

 

    His running may be an added bonus. But if he couldn't pass, he would not be able to run.

 

Look, I'm not saying I know more about football than anybody, but I know that I know more than your average fan and I know college coaches, QBs who played in college, and a number of high school coaches. For some reason, all these people who know the game more than the majority of people all agree. Cam is a great QB but without running, he wouldn't have survived long enough to win MVP. I'm sorry, but when you were healthy and it took a complete offensive overhaul to have you complete north of 60% of your passes consistently 7 years into your career...and your backup can pull off similar numbers to your best statistical run of your career with literally no league experience....it says a lot.

 

Again, if Cam comes back after the bye and destroys, I'll be stoked. I HOPE above all hope that Cam can come back and set the world on fire, prove to everybody that he is one of the best to ever do it. However, there's a real chance he's done here and I'm ok with that if we win. Because as much as I love future hall of famer Cam Newton (he will be), I love the Panthers more.

[iamhubby1]

5 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

Look, I'm not saying I know more about football than anybody, but I know that I know more than your average fan and I know college coaches, QBs who played in college, and a number of high school coaches. For some reason, all these people who know the game more than the majority of people all agree. Cam is a great QB but without running, he wouldn't have survived long enough to win MVP. I'm sorry, but when you were healthy and it took a complete offensive overhaul to have you complete north of 60% of your passes consistently 7 years into your career...and your backup can pull off similar numbers to your best statistical run of your career with literally no league experience....it says a lot.

 

Again, if Cam comes back after the bye and destroys, I'll be stoked. I HOPE above all hope that Cam can come back and set the world on fire, prove to everybody that he is one of the best to ever do it. However, there's a real chance he's done here and I'm ok with that if we win. Because as much as I love future hall of famer Cam Newton (he will be), I love the Panthers more.

 

    Hey, I agree that Cam has never had a high completion percentage. However, he also throws down field a poo ton, and has had a rather untalented WR corps for the vast majority of his Career. Drops were a big deal around here.

 

    Kyle has a poo ton of talent to play with, yet rarely throws down field. That can have a drastic effect on his completion percentage.

 

    Be honest. If Cam couldn't throw. Why would teams not gear up to stop his runs?

 

    I'm done. Cam just never gets the credit. And I can live with that.

 

    Until Cam does not come back. I am going to pull for him to step all over the doubters.

[ellis]

Meanwhile:

 

[weyco2000]

3 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

    See, I don't get this. Folks continue to say "Without the threat to run,  Cam is not great". Then, how can Cam have all these passing records? It just does not make any sense to me.

 

    Hate Cam all you want. It is your right. But please, quit making things up.

I'm sure most of his passing records are associated with rushing yardage.

When Cam was a threat to run, opponents placed a spy on him which in turn takes away zone schemes. He forced teams into man coverage or a hybrid of the two. You're essentially taking one defender(LB or S) to account for the QB, not to mention the RPO...

When and if he ever comes back, hope it's not as a tradional pocket passer... 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, weyco2000 said:

I'm sure most of his passing records are associated with rushing yardage.

When Cam was a threat to run, opponents placed a spy on him which in turn takes away zone schemes. He forced teams into man coverage or a hybrid of the two. You're essentially taking one defender(LB or S) to account for the QB, not to mention the RPO...

When and if he ever comes back, hope it's not as a tradional pocket passer... 

Man coverage has its own pitfalls against a mobile quarterback too.

When you're playing man, you're a lot more likely to have several guys with their backs for the quarterback. So if he does take off, there's a pretty good chance your coverage guys are gonna be a second or so late realizing what's happening.

[iamhubby1]

6 minutes ago, weyco2000 said:

I'm sure most of his passing records are associated with rushing yardage.

When Cam was a threat to run, opponents placed a spy on him which in turn takes away zone schemes. He forced teams into man coverage or a hybrid of the two. You're essentially taking one defender(LB or S) to account for the QB, not to mention the RPO...

When and if he ever comes back, hope it's not as a tradional pocket passer... 

 

    There is no doubt that Cam's running effected the pass Defense. But therein lies the rub. If he could not pass, he would not be a dual threat.

 

    Point being. Down the line, if need be, he should be able to get the job done as a passer. Why is that so difficult for folks to comprehend?