Is Allen a legit starting qb

[raz]

Just now, panthers1234 said:

You actually think we would have won the Jags or Texans game without CMC? There is a reason CMC is in every play cause the team would be really sucky without him. You guys seem to forget the days where we had Stew run straight down the middle for 2 yards. Can you imagine the team right now if we had Stew instead of CMC?

what i'm saying is that you're tossing the baby out with the bathwater if you've decided what we can't do with allen.  he's started 4 games and we have a shite pass blocking line.  when he had time he carved up zona - and yes, they suck.  

[SBiii]

11 minutes ago, panthers1234 said:

(i) Allen would have 1 win if it weren't for CMC.

(ii) ....as it stands now he is a bottom 10 NFL qb.

(iii)  You will never win a super bowl with Allen as qb and you would have a hard time winning 1 playoff game. 

(i)  Relevance?  It's called a team for a reason.

(ii)  Factually incorrect. 

(iii)  No QB has ever won a Super Bowl for the Panthers so he wouldn't be alone there.  I'll take the other side of your trade as it relates to winning a playoff game, he's proven he has plenty of talent and moxie to win just about any game.

[panthers1234]

1 minute ago, raz said:

what i'm saying is that you're tossing the baby out with the bathwater if you've decided what we can't do with allen.  he's started 4 games and we have a shite pass blocking line.  when he had time he carved up zona - and yes, they suck.  

Sure he could improve into someone decent but I dont see the top 10 QB ceiling for Allen even if he were to play for a season or 2. The OL has always been a problem with the panthers and just about any other NFL team as well. Allen needs to be prepared for that and not fumble and shuffle in the pocket better. He will cost us some games with these fumbles in the future. We have been lucky so far. 

[panthers1234]

7 minutes ago, SBiii said:

(i)  Relevance?  It's called a team for a reason.

(ii)  Factually incorrect. 

(iii)  No QB has ever won a Super Bowl for the Panthers so he wouldn't be alone there.  I'll take the other side of your trade as it relates to winning a playoff game, he's proven he has plenty of talent and moxie to win just about any game.

The relevance is your accessing one position and one piece of the team. So far at his best he is alright and solid but at his worst he is a fumbling machine. 

You honestly think he is in the top 22 QB? Don't give me that bs 4-0 record and some stats because they are deceptive depending on how you use them. If you truly want to access how good he is go back and watch every play/throw. No GM or coach would take him as their QB in the top 22. 

I don't believe he has the talent/moxie to win any game. I believe he can manage a game and keep it close. 

[MechaZain]

Kyle's good enough to not be the reason you lose and that's enough to be a starter in this league. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

[mav1234]

3 minutes ago, panthers1234 said:

The relevance is your accessing one position and one piece of the team. So far at his best he is alright and solid but at his worst he is a fumbling machine. 

You honestly think he is in the top 22 QB? Don't give me that bs 4-0 record and some stats because they are deceptive depending on how you use them. If you truly want to access how good he is go back and watch every play/throw. No GM or coach would take him as their QB in the top 22. 

I don't believe he has the talent/moxie to win any game. I believe he can manage a game and keep it close. 

Allen has the 13th ESPN QBR in the league and the 4th best QB Rating.  Because of his limited sample size, this doesn't mean a ton, but for a dude in his 4th start he has played well enough to win even on not-great-to-bad days.  I am not sure how he would rate compared to 22 other QBs, frankly, but time will tell.

I don't know of any QB that has the talent to win *any* game.  Allen has the talent and moxie to win *four straight* games, though.

[Malt Liquor]

Agree

[Wolfpack352]

49 minutes ago, panthers1234 said:

CMC is carrying the offense. Allen would have 1 win if it weren't for CMC. I am shocked some of you guys consider him as a replacement because as it stands now he is a bottom 10 NFL qb. You will never win a super bowl with Allen as qb and you would have a hard time winning 1 playoff game. 

So there is no team effort?  As far as I am concerned, everyone on both sides need to ball out to win games.  Kyle needs more snap time to "gel" with what he has to work with.  I am sure most thought Nick Foles would not out duel Tom Brady in superbowl.  

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Allen has the 13th ESPN QBR in the league and the 4th best QB Rating.  Because of his limited sample size, this doesn't mean a ton, but for a dude in his 4th start he has played well enough to win even on not-great-to-bad days.  I am not sure how he would rate compared to 22 other QBs, frankly, but time will tell.

I don't know of any QB that has the talent to win *any* game.  Allen has the talent and moxie to win *four straight* games, though.

Last time I checked it was still a team sport.

Plus, when you have people blaming one guy's losses on the team around him while at the same time crediting another guy's wins to the team around him and it's the same personnel, something's a little off.

[raz]

43 minutes ago, panthers1234 said:

Sure he could improve into someone decent but I dont see the top 10 QB ceiling for Allen even if he were to play for a season or 2. The OL has always been a problem with the panthers and just about any other NFL team as well. Allen needs to be prepared for that and not fumble and shuffle in the pocket better. He will cost us some games with these fumbles in the future. We have been lucky so far. 

great, like i said, you think you're psychic.  cool.  go buy some lottery tickets.   

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, panthers1234 said:

CMC is carrying the offense. Allen would have 1 win if it weren't for CMC. I am shocked some of you guys consider him as a replacement because as it stands now he is a bottom 10 NFL qb. You will never win a super bowl with Allen as qb and you would have a hard time winning 1 playoff game. 

That is stupid logic. First of all he is not a bottom 10 QB and secondly CMC has been here since 2017 and Cam had him for his 2 losses.

Stop acting as if Allen isn't doing a good job because he is. He is the replacement and until Cam is fully healthy Allen is the best choice we got.

[SBiii]

53 minutes ago, panthers1234 said:

You honestly think he is in the top 22 QB?

I don't believe he has the talent/moxie to win any game. I believe he can manage a game and keep it close. 

No QB can win a game by himself.   Football is a team game and by definition the quarterback is charged with managing the game.  QB's who manage the best win the most....Brady & Wilson are great examples as such. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting Allen in their class but those guys don't have prodigious physical gifts...

...but they win baby. 

NOTE:  Kyle's overall RTG is still probationary until he gets a minimum of 5 games under his belt but he's working on a darn good base.

[raz]

uh, sbiii, did you just say russel wilson doesn't have prodigious physical gifts?   uh, yes, yes he does.  and brady?  accuracy and processing speed are physical gifts.

[SBiii]

8 minutes ago, raz said:

uh, sbiii, did you just say russel wilson doesn't have prodigious physical gifts?   uh, yes, yes he does.  and brady?  accuracy and processing speed are physical gifts.

I'm talking about if the were to line up in a Superstars like competition....or compete in the decathlon for example.

Agreed on accuracy....but "processing speed" is not physical, that goes to intellectual horsepower....and you are correct, both those guys are wicked smart.