Norv on CMC: "We can't have him have a 37 touch load over time. Analytics guys saying throw it to him more."

[CatTower]

This has been Norv's coaching style since he came into the league.  He gives heavy workload to star players and more often than not, it works out.  Look at Emmitt Smith and LaDainian Tomlinson.  Norv ran those guys hard and they performed brilliantly.  You could make a case that their careers were shortened, but that's just speculation.  You take what the defense gives you.  Don't overexhaust CMC if the defense is shadowing him all game with their strongest guy, but otherwise use him to the fullest extent.  It's not about the mileage, it's about the hits.  If we can keep him in open field with those short passing routes, keep doing it.  I'd rather be giving him 10+ catches through the air a game than asking him to run through some 300 pound linemen 30 times a game.

[Waldo]

you know the people who bring out the best in others? That's not Ron. He is an enabler and he values the same trait in others around him. It's why him and Hurney are so happy to work together even though they don't win together. 

[Davidson Deac II]

1 minute ago, BrianS said:

The lack of touches for other backs should probably tell us something about the confidence level our staff has in those other backs.  Norv did a great job of lightening the load on LaDainian when Sproles finally broke through.

If lack of touches is the criteria, then we haven't had confidence in a second back in a long time.  The last time we had two running backs get significant touches consistently was when we had D. Williams and Stewart together.  Unless the key back was out with injury.  Otherwise, its been Stewart or CMC.  And Cam of course.  

[Bartin]

5 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

If lack of touches is the criteria, then we haven't had confidence in a second back in a long time.  The last time we had two running backs get significant touches consistently was when we had D. Williams and Stewart together.  Unless the key back was out with injury.  Otherwise, its been Stewart or CMC.  And Cam of course.  

We used a good mix of Fozzy and Tolbert with Stewart in 2015 and 2016 then CMC played a good amount in relief of Stew in 2017. It wasn’t until 2018 with Norv when it basically became all CMC all the time.

[Waldo]

We don't need a stud, we have one. We just need a guy to take 5 to 10 snaps a game and keep our stud studly. We have two guys I could see filing that role well but we actually have to try it in a game. I like Norv but this is a little silly. You can't play unless you are probowl quality? That's some BS. 

[BrianS]

5 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

If lack of touches is the criteria, then we haven't had confidence in a second back in a long time.  The last time we had two running backs get significant touches consistently was when we had D. Williams and Stewart together.  Unless the key back was out with injury.  Otherwise, its been Stewart or CMC.  And Cam of course.  

Not true.

In 2017, CMC carried 117 times, JStew carried 198 times and Cam carried 139 times.  Pretty even.

Prior, yes, JStew tended to get a lot of touches compared to other backs, but you also have to consider that Cam is taking carries that otherwise a RB would have gotten.  Even in 2017, Cam taking 139 carries is probably too much.

But the bottom line here is that when you are talking about our offense since Cam has been here, Cam definitely takes carries away from your backs.  More specifically, Cam takes carries away from your BACKUP RB's.  Obviously, that hasn't been the case THIS year so far, but historically, that's what we've had.  Look no further than 2017 honestly.  Stew was the starter that year, CMC the backup at least early.  Wouldn't you have rather seen Cam give up 60 or so carries for CMC?

 

[TheRed]

53 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Cause we’re...not...? We pretty consistently split carries under Shula. We ran a lot of 2 TE sets under Chud. There are drastically different offensive philosophies/personnel groupings under our three different coordinators so I’m not sure how you suggest that Rivera is behind it.

Seems like he gives his offensive coordinators control and free reign to run the offense however they see fit. Which isn’t the worst thing in the world for a defensive guy...I’d rather that, than him meddling with the offense.

Shula only had one year of CMC before he was shown the door, and Newton was our leading rusher that season.

There's not much point in going all the way back to Chud because Rivera hasn't looked outside his own coaching house or his circle of coaching buddies since bringing in Chudzinski all those years ago. That's the problem.

[Bartin]

9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

We don't need a stud, we have one. We just need a guy to take 5 to 10 snaps a game and keep our stud studly. We have two guys I could see filing that role well but we actually have to try it in a game. I like Norv but this is a little silly. You can't play unless you are probowl quality? That's some BS. 

This is where I am. CMC is by far our best option at RB but is the offense really going to be useless if we put Scarlett or Bonnafon out there for a series or two every game and give them 3-5 touches? CMC will still play like 80% of the snaps. 99% of the snaps is ridiculous for a RB this day and age. It’s not just the times he touches the ball either. When he pass blocks he is dealing with DL and LB hitting him.

[Castavar]

I don't see why we can't run like 5 jet sweeps a game to DJ and Curtis like the Rams do. That's 5 less carries for CMC right there. It's at least a start. I just don't get it. Even if we do make the playoffs, CMC would be gassed by then. I feel like Scarlett is more than capable of handling a few carries and catches a game, but we'll never know unless you actually give him a try in real games. We're just going to run him into the ground like we did Cam. Sad.

[Bartin]

Decided to take a look at what the Giants were doing with Saquon who is probably the most similar to CMC as far as total offensive impact in their first 2 games(he got injured early in game 3 so throwing that out).

Week 1 - Saquon 54 snaps, 79%; Gallman 14 snaps, 21%

Week 2 - Saquon 60 snaps, 88%; Gallman 8 snaps, 12%

Can we seriously just not copy that? It doesn’t need to be 50/50 but just spell him a little bit.

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, Cary Kollins said:

look, there isn't a safety or linebacker in the league that can cover CMC. Hell, most cornerbacks probably can't cover him. So why don't we come out in a 2RB set and motion CMC into the slot?

It's not rocket science.

sports analytics: Turning your blood and guts game into rocket science, one standard deviation at a time.

[Pantherxtreme]

1 hour ago, CatTower said:

This has been Norv's coaching style since he came into the league.  He gives heavy workload to star players and more often than not, it works out.  Look at Emmitt Smith and LaDainian Tomlinson.  Norv ran those guys hard and they performed brilliantly.  You could make a case that their careers were shortened, but that's just speculation.  You take what the defense gives you.  Don't overexhaust CMC if the defense is shadowing him all game with their strongest guy, but otherwise use him to the fullest extent.  It's not about the mileage, it's about the hits.  If we can keep him in open field with those short passing routes, keep doing it.  I'd rather be giving him 10+ catches through the air a game than asking him to run through some 300 pound linemen 30 times a game.

Emmitt Smith played 15 seasons.

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, raz said:

its like giving another back 10 plays a game has never even occurred to him

He caught 10 out of 10 of those passes, one of which was a circus catch for the ages. I'm not sure there's a WR in the league, much less another RB that can do that game in and game out. 

I'd love to see them be able to give him a few less touches a game at this point in the season, but the drop off in potential when you move to the next one is pretty amazing. Heck, if you took all of the other starting RBs in the league, the drop off between CMC and them would be pretty monumental. 

[beastson]

What's so hard about giving another RB snaps? Why is that hard? Why are they making it hard?