Daley at LT?

[panthers55]

8 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Honestly felt sorry for you. 

Was going to tell the newb @1of10Charnatives dont mind p55. Hes a special case, but still a panther fan and supporter. Got back stabbed before hand, when that was my honest intentions. 

That is funny.  

[panthers55]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't disagree with you on MB (insert Audi and/or BMW too). But, at the end of the day, market value = what people are willing to pay.

Don't disagree with that at all. But like the Mercedes, the left tackle is often overpaid for their relative value and in the case of a guy like Matt Kalil, criminally overpaid just because he was a left tackle and perceived to be valuable.

[Peon Awesome]

38 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

LTs make significantly more money than RTs. It's the only argument I need. You can link articles to writers opining that it shouldn't be this way because of this, that, and the other but it's irrelevant. The fact is that NFL teams view LT and CB as more difficult to play positions and more difficult positions to fill compared to RT and S and that's why they are paid at a comparatively higher rate. This is really simple stuff. You just love to argue for the sake of argument making a fool of yourself while thinking you're outsmarting everyone else.

I haven't looked into the analytics enough to comment so confidently on the subject, but if your entire argument is based on the fact that they are paid more, that's an incredibly weak argument. You don't have dig very deep to see that what someone is paid and how much their worth often don't go hand in hand. Think about if you had a Gano vs Slye thread and responded "Gano is better. He makes 6 times as much. Case closed!" Or if we want to go positional, the Eagles are paying Alshon Jeffrey about $13 million and Zach Ertz $8 million based largely on the salary discrepancy between a wide receiver and a tight end. Which player do you think contributes more to the success of the team? By your account, makes sense that Jeffrey is nearly twice as important. You could bring Gronkowski in that conversation as well to the greater point that tight ends with receiving ability are underpaid, not because they are less important than receivers but because general salary targets have been historically set and haven't caught up to evolution in the game, which is a point panthers55 has tried to make.

Now if you want to present actual evidence that the left tackle is more important/technically more difficult of a position, by all means. If you don't, maybe it's fair to lay off panthers55 and acknowledge that it's possible his position, supported by at least two analysts, could have some merit.

[1of10Charnatives]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Makes sense...

Hell of a trash talker, though. Ya gotta give her that.

You're not kidding. I had to scrub my brain with dish soap just to get all the poo she said last time we barhopped together out of my head.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

I haven't looked into the analytics enough to comment so confidently on the subject, but if your entire argument is based on the fact that they are paid more, that's an incredibly weak argument. You don't have dig very deep to see that what someone is paid and how much their worth often don't go hand in hand. Think about if you had a Gano vs Slye thread and responded "Gano is better. He makes 6 times as much. Case closed!" Or if we want to go positional, the Eagles are paying Alshon Jeffrey about $13 million and Zach Ertz $8 million based largely on the salary discrepancy between a wide receiver and a tight end. Which player do you think contributes more to the success of the team? By your account, makes sense that Jeffrey is nearly twice as important. You could bring Gronkowski in that conversation as well to the greater point that tight ends with receiving ability are underpaid, not because they are less important than receivers but because general salary targets have been historically set and haven't caught up to evolution in the game, which is a point panthers55 has tried to make.

Now if you want to present actual evidence that the left tackle is more important/technically more difficult of a position, by all means. If you don't, maybe it's fair to lay off panthers55 and acknowledge that it's possible his position, supported by at least two analysts, could have some merit.

But your using a specific players value as a barometer. Which isn’t the point. It’s the league-wide value system set from ALL 32 teams,  that hasn’t changed any for a very long time. And won’t unless there is a run of left-handed QBs. 

  All these examples of great pass rushers that line up on that side are players that have been around for 5-10 years. So why hasn’t anything changed in that time? 

  We just had an up close example of a player who excelled at RT and was as bad at LT as anyone I’ve ever seen in an NFL game.  

[LinvilleGorge]

20 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

I haven't looked into the analytics enough to comment so confidently on the subject, but if your entire argument is based on the fact that they are paid more, that's an incredibly weak argument. You don't have dig very deep to see that what someone is paid and how much their worth often don't go hand in hand. Think about if you had a Gano vs Slye thread and responded "Gano is better. He makes 6 times as much. Case closed!" Or if we want to go positional, the Eagles are paying Alshon Jeffrey about $13 million and Zach Ertz $8 million based largely on the salary discrepancy between a wide receiver and a tight end. Which player do you think contributes more to the success of the team? By your account, makes sense that Jeffrey is nearly twice as important. You could bring Gronkowski in that conversation as well to the greater point that tight ends with receiving ability are underpaid, not because they are less important than receivers but because general salary targets have been historically set and haven't caught up to evolution in the game, which is a point panthers55 has tried to make.

Now if you want to present actual evidence that the left tackle is more important/technically more difficult of a position, by all means. If you don't, maybe it's fair to lay off panthers55 and acknowledge that it's possible his position, supported by at least two analysts, could have some merit.

The market determines your value, period. You're worth whatever someone will pay. 

You can argue that the market value should be different than what it is and why, but that doesn't change the actual market value.

 

[KB_fan]

Moton played LT one game people. Not any proven record at LT. Leave him be at RT to have some coherence and continuity on the line. Williams was overrated at RT, got lots of help. Keep him at RG while Trai is hurt.

I hate that we've got another mess at LT, but give Daley a shot. Sounds like he has some promise.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

Moton played LT one game people. Not any proven record at LT. Leave him be at RT to have some coherence and continuity on the line. Williams was overrated at RT, got lots of help. Keep him at RG while Trai is hurt.

I hate that we've got another mess at LT, but give Daley a shot. Sounds like he has some promise.

Somehow, all of us fans knew Williams at LT would be a disaster but our coaching staff didn't. That's a problem.

[KB_fan]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Somehow, all of us fans knew Williams at LT would be a disaster but our coaching staff didn't. That's a problem.

Agree, but to be fair Little got injured in preseason game 3. Maybe he would have played sooner if healthy. Give Ron and Co. *SOME* credit for getting Little 50% of LT snaps (week 3) as soon as Little was back and NOT because of any injuries that forced his hand.

That's improvement. Let's take it for what it is.

[Mr. Scot]

28 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

Moton played LT one game people. Not any proven record at LT. Leave him be at RT to have some coherence and continuity on the line. Williams was overrated at RT, got lots of help. Keep him at RG while Trai is hurt.

I hate that we've got another mess at LT, but give Daley a shot. Sounds like he has some promise.

That's one more than Dennis Daley..

Chris Clark was awful last year but Rivera preferred him to Taylor Moton. Darryl Williams had played left tackle before and looked terrible, but Rivera preferred him to Taylor Moton. Now we've got Dennis Daley who's a 6th round rookie, and Rivera even prefers him to Taylor Moton.

Bear in mind, this is the same guy that moved Mike Remmers to left tackle. So you're willing to trust Mike Remmers out there but not Taylor Moton?

Just doesn't make any sense to me.

[KB_fan]

But moving Remmers to LT destabilized multiple positions and was a disaster.

Just maybe Ron learned something that you don't mess up 3 positions on the line when one player is injured. Daley at least played LT in college unlike Moton. You could make a case he's more experienced at LT.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's one more than Dennis Daley..

Chris Clark was awful last year but Rivera preferred him to Taylor Moton. Darryl Williams had played left tackle before and looked terrible, but Rivera preferred him to Taylor Moton. Now we've got Dennis Daley who's a 6th round rookie, and Rivera even prefers him to Taylor Moton.

Bear in mind, this is the same guy that moved Mike Remmers to left tackle. So you're willing to trust Mike Remmers out there but not Taylor Moton?

Just doesn't make any sense to me.

This. Maybe Daley plays and surprises, but even if he's a complete dumpster fire it won't matter. I think we'll put Vernon Butler at LT before Moton.

[onmyown]

35 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Somehow, all of us fans knew Williams at LT would be a disaster but our coaching staff didn't. That's a problem.

The huddle has somehow called a lot of idiotic things years ahead of time and the staff didn’t.

I’d like to think the sign of competent coaching staff would be ones to consistently prove us lesser minds on the subject (message board fans) wrong.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

But moving Remmers to LT destabilized multiple positions and was a disaster.

Just maybe Ron learned something that you don't mess up 3 positions on the line when one player is injured. Daley at least played LT in college unlike Moton. You could make a case he's more experienced at LT.

The line was a disaster anyway.

The problem with Ron is that a lot of the time when he "learns a lesson" it's either too late or he draws the wrong conclusions.

Do we really believe a sixth round rookie is a better option than Taylor Moton?