Ron Rivera Appreciation

[MasterAwesome]

23 minutes ago, MVPccaffrey said:

Yeah a lot of agenda huddlers are going to get *very* uncomfortable as Allen keeps tallying wins for this reason.  They've maintained for years that Ron is 0-58-1 and Cam is 71-0, or whatever.

He gets the blame for literally everything bad since “he’s the head coach and he’s responsible for everything”, but the credit for all the success goes to Cam. It’s pretty ridiculous. If he does anything great that you possibly CAN’T give Cam credit for (like having a Top 2 defense largely due to him calling the plays), then the narrative becomes “well he should’ve done that earlier”...lol. 
 

[LinvilleGorge]

I have some issues with Ron as a head coach and I've posted about them at length. At the end of the day, the man is one helluva defensive coach and I don't think anyone can claim otherwise. But, that brings up one of my issues... the man his loyal to "his people" to a fault. There's no excuse for our D to have fell off as badly as it did last year. It was blatantly obvious early on that Washington was not cutting it as the defensive play caller but we rode that horse into the ground.

[MasterAwesome]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If he has, it's ultimately Ron's fault. Regardless of what a player is saying, when it's blatantly obvious that he shouldn't be on the field it's your job as the head coach to make that call.

Can we at least acknowledge that there’s blame on Rivera and Cam? Cam for withholding the severity of his injury and Rivera for not overriding his desire to play? It’s not a black-and-white thing that people want to make it out to be.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I have some issues with Ron as a head coach and I've posted about them at length. At the end of the day, the man is one helluva defensive coach and I don't think anyone can claim otherwise. But, that brings up one of my issues... the man his loyal to "his people" to a fault. There's no excuse for our D to have fell off as badly as it did last year. It was blatantly obvious early on that Washington was not cutting it as the defensive play caller but we rode that horse into the ground.

There's also that Shula guy...

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

He gets the blame for literally everything bad since “he’s the head coach and he’s responsible for everything”, but the credit for all the success goes to Cam. It’s pretty ridiculous. If he does anything great that you possibly CAN’T give Cam credit for (like having a Top 2 defense largely due to him calling the plays), then the narrative becomes “well he should’ve done that earlier”...lol. 
 

Some people are idiots. Anyone not giving Ron credit for the D is just too biased to admit otherwise.

But, you can't ignore that for YEARS Cam completely carried this offense. How many other times has a QB also led his team in rushing yards or rushing TDs? Cam did that not once or twice for this team, but for YEARS. He led the team in rushing yards twice and rushing TDs six times. At his peak, I doubt any one player has ever accounted for as much of his team's offensive production as Cam did. I just hope that we didn't run him into the ground doing that and I hope that we're not running CMC into the ground currently. Maybe it's just the coincidence of having two talents like Cam and CMC, but Ron and his staff sure have shown a tendency to pretty much run the entire offense through one individual player and that takes it's toll.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Can we at least acknowledge that there’s blame on Rivera and Cam? Cam for withholding the severity of his injury and Rivera for not overriding his desire to play? It’s not a black-and-white thing that people want to make it out to be.

Absolutely, but football is very much "tough guy culture". All these guys are banged up during the season. It's in their mentality to ignore the injuries and try to play through them. They've undoubtedly done it before probably many times. It's up to the coaching staff to determine if they're able to play through those injuries effectively.

[Baskinridge]

Jeez what an impressive list and accomplishment.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Absolutely, but football is very much "tough guy culture". All these guys are banged up during the season. It's in their mentality to ignore the injuries and try to play through them. They've undoubtedly done it before probably many times. It's up to the coaching staff to determine if they're able to play through those injuries effectively.

Yep.

Will say one thing, though. While I'm still not a great fan of his decision-making overall, another game or two and we might have to re-evaluate what we think of his time management skills.

[Pantherxtreme]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm pretty sure the exact same sentiment was thrown out there when we let go of John Fox. And Fox actually  did get another job fairly quick, but he didn't win a championship there either (or on the next one).

The whole "he'll get another job in a hot minute" argument is never a good enough reason to hold on to a guy if you don't think he's going to get you where you want to go. Teams aren't looking to have a guy with a great regular season record. They want championships. If you can't win one, they'll find somebody else who can.

There are a lot of jobs where is you can sustain a long, happy career in the same spot just by being good enough even if you're never great.

NFL head coach isn't one of them.

Rivera has proven to be a much better coach than Fox. Winning percentage aside, unlike Fox he has shown he can adapt when something isn't working. Pass rush anemic last season Rivera takes over playcalling, decides to switch to the 3-4 defense this offseason goes out an drafts players that fit the scheme and now the Panthers lead the league in sacks. It's not easy for alot of football coaches to adapt, it's what set Belichick apart from the other great football minds of his generation. Is Rivera perfect no, but he's a much better coach than is given credit on this board.

[BrianS]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yep.

Will say one thing, though. While I'm still not a great fan of his decision-making overall, another game or two and we might have to re-evaluate what we think of his time management skills.

You tryin to get flamed?  WTF man, wtf! 

But yea, I agree, limited evidence suggests that at least offensively, Cam may need to shoulder a heaping helping of the blame for poor clock management.  Kyle Allen has looked excellent at clock management / situational awareness.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

Rivera has proven to be a much better coach than Fox. Winning percentage aside, unlike Fox he has shown he can adapt when something isn't working. Pass rush anemic last season Rivera takes over playcalling, decides to switch to the 3-4 defense this offseason goes out an drafts players that fit the scheme and now the Panthers lead the league in sacks. It's not easy for alot of football coaches to adapt, it's what set Belichick apart from the other great football minds of his generation. Is Rivera perfect no, but he's a much better coach than is given credit on this board.

I think that's kind of subjective.

Yes, we've seen Rivera adapt. Typically it happens about week ten.

We've had a gag on here before about starting a list called "things Ron Rivera learned too late". There is general agreement that it'd be a long list.

"Players Ron Rivera didn't learn were good until the guy he thought was better than them got injured" would be another good one.

[MVPccaffrey]

It's amazing how much better Ron suddenly got at managing TOs when he has a QB that isn't staring up at the jumbotron after every play.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, BrianS said:

You tryin to get flamed?  WTF man, wtf! 

But yea, I agree, limited evidence suggests that at least offensively, Cam may need to shoulder a heaping helping of the blame for poor clock management.  Kyle Allen has looked excellent at clock management / situational awareness.

Just doing what I always do and giving my honest opinion...

Admittedly, I have looked into buying flame resistant underwear (it's kinda expensive).

[Baskinridge]

A Jeff Fisher type coach with Cam Newton and Luke Kuechly type players that still managed 3 winning seasons out of 9 with a barely above mediocre win vs loss ratio.

Hopefully we sign this guy for life!