Speculation is Cam will start after the bye.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, AceBoogie said:

You’re half right. We have been through it which is why you don’t go from Cam Newton to Kyle Allen.

Huh? You go with the natural order of things, however that turns out to be! 

[steven8989]

5 hours ago, johnking3194 said:

EAGLES GAME 2015. Anything else you need clown.

To bad u seen someone else post it first. By the way that's the only one.

[Forty-Eight]

If Allen keeps winning, I dont want Cam back anytime soon

[Verge]

16 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

Fumbles are worse than picks.

Lol, what in the world?

[uncfan888]

3 hours ago, Verge said:

Lol, what in the world?

I don't get your response. It seems pretty logical. Both suck but at least interceptions occur further down the field. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

I don't get your response. It seems pretty logical. Both suck but at least interceptions occur further down the field. 

Fair point, but fumbles don't frequently get run back.

[uncfan888]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fair point, but fumbles don't frequently get run back.

Yeah but they already start further back. I'm just saying that people keep bagging on cam saying that Allen is better cuz he doesn't throw interceptions and I have to disagree because he's turning the ball over too

[steven8989]

15 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

Yeah but they already start further back. I'm just saying that people keep bagging on cam saying that Allen is better cuz he doesn't throw interceptions and I have to disagree because he's turning the ball over too

I think either sucks but turnovers have always bothered Cam mentally. Allen's composure is so much better. I think that's how you judge players especially QBs on how they come back next series. This dude just looks like a winner, not saying he is next Tom Brady.

[Mr. Scot]

12 hours ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I am not writing off Allen.  I am only saying that Allen is not impressing me yet.  Does he have potential?  Sure.  But we are over here, wanting to kick Cam to the side while boasting about anything Allen did reasonably well and dismissing any negatives (5 fumbles, 4 lost in 2 games).

All I am saying is if 220 yards, 2-3 turn overs a game is what we are still getting from Allen in a month when (hypothetically) Cam comes back, if Cam is 100% healthy he should be the starter unless he shows he can't even put up those paltry numbers.

If Allen actually improves and cleans up his game?  its a different story.

We are so worried about writing off Allen we are immediately writing off Cam.  We wouldn't accept this play in Cam as the starter, even if we were winning.  I don't accept it in Allen.  

So once again.  I am not saying we should give up on Allen, trade for a replacement, whatever.  I am only saying if his current gameplay continues, I prefer a 100% healthy Cam.

Nobody's "writing off" Newton (though a few are probably trolling as if they are) but in reality there are some very harsh possibilities to face.

The primary one is this: We'd all love a 100% Cam Newton, but right now nobody can guarantee we're going to see one.

And even if he gets there, will he stay there? Remember, we came into this season with the expectation of seeing a 100% Newton as well. That lasted about one quarter of one preseason game.

It sucks, especially given how the franchise has handled him, but it's the truth. And if he's not back to full speed, you can't ask the franchise to make up for past treatment by favoring him anyway. People can talk about him "earning the right" but the right to continue starting for the team when you're not the best option can't be earned because it doesn't exist.

I will agree with you on the point that Allen still isn't established either way. Every option that we talk about concerning him is based on "if". If he plays well, if he corrects problems, if he stays healthy (also not guaranteed) and numerous other things.

Said it many times already,. Everybody wants to be the first person to predict the future, but it's largely a futile exercise.

Bottom Line: People absolutely want to believe in Kyle Allen, but that doesn't mean they don't want Cam Newton to come back. It's more that they fear he can't.

As to overestimating Allen, I'd say as much as anything it's based in hope. Specifically, the hope that something good happens for this team. Make no mistake, Allen being great would absolutely be a positive for the team, and if we're truly being objective, nobody should be criticized for wanting that to happen.

Neither should anyone be chastised for thinking that Newton might not be able to come back. Sadly, under the circumstances it's a pretty logical option.

[Mr. Scot]

25 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

Yeah but they already start further back. I'm just saying that people keep bagging on cam saying that Allen is better cuz he doesn't throw interceptions and I have to disagree because he's turning the ball over too

I get where you're coming from, but that's not always true either. Short passes get intercepted just as frequently as long ones.

And yeah, some (not all) of his fumbles are strips or strip sacks. If we're keeping it real, those don't happen if you get better protection (no matter who the quarterback is).

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Allen being great would absolutely be a positive for the team, and if we're truly being objective, nobody should be criticized for wanting that to happen

I completely agree.  I'd love for Allen to be great.

My issue is people are already crowning Allen great.  People are saying that if we win, regardless of how bad Allen is playing, he shouldn't be benched for a healthy Cam Newton (assuming he comes back).  Under any circumstances.

My entire point is that Allen has not solidified himself as a starter.  More of a "hope he doesn't mess up enough to kill us" guy.  With every fiber of my being, I'd love Allen to step up and play great.  I see the potential.  I am just saying he isn't there yet.  I have no issue with someone hoping he reaches it.  I am hoping it as well.  He does a lot of things I love.  He also does a lot of things I hate that nearly lost us the game.

I am only saying that his play..*right now*..doesn't justify playing him over a *healthy Cam Newton*, should Cam Newton return and be 100% healthy.  Regardless of win streak.  Because Allen isn't the reason for the win streak, outside of playing an injured QB as the only other option.  Its CMC and the Defense.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I completely agree.  I'd love for Allen to be great.

My issue is people are already crowning Allen great.  People are saying that if we win, regardless of how bad Allen is playing, he shouldn't be benched for a healthy Cam Newton (assuming he comes back).  Under any circumstances.

My entire point is that Allen has not solidified himself as a starter.  More of a "hope he doesn't mess up enough to kill us" guy.  With every fiber of my being, I'd love Allen to step up and play great.  I see the potential.  I am just saying he isn't there yet.  I have no issue with someone hoping he reaches it.  I am hoping it as well.  He does a lot of things I love.  He also does a lot of things I hate that nearly lost us the game.

I am only saying that his play..*right now*..doesn't justify playing him over a *healthy Cam Newton*, should Cam Newton return and be 100% healthy.  Regardless of win streak.  Because Allen isn't the reason for the win streak, outside of playing an injured QB as the only other option.  Its CMC and the Defense.

To be fair, there were people who viewed Jake Delhomme as "just hope he doesn't mess up enough to kill us" for his entire career here.

Also to be fair, the "he also does a lot of things I hate" line is something that could equally be said about Cam Newton.

I'd have to add I really hate the whole "we're winning in spite of him" idea. It could easily be said of half the players on the field. Heck, the last time he was in a game, Donte Jackson looked like he was playing flag football but he also made a big interception. Did we "win in spite of him" too?

[raz]

18 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I completely agree.  I'd love for Allen to be great.

My issue is people are already crowning Allen great.  People are saying that if we win, regardless of how bad Allen is playing, he shouldn't be benched for a healthy Cam Newton (assuming he comes back).  Under any circumstances.

My entire point is that Allen has not solidified himself as a starter.  More of a "hope he doesn't mess up enough to kill us" guy.  With every fiber of my being, I'd love Allen to step up and play great.  I see the potential.  I am just saying he isn't there yet.  I have no issue with someone hoping he reaches it.  I am hoping it as well.  He does a lot of things I love.  He also does a lot of things I hate that nearly lost us the game.

I am only saying that his play..*right now*..doesn't justify playing him over a *healthy Cam Newton*, should Cam Newton return and be 100% healthy.  Regardless of win streak.  Because Allen isn't the reason for the win streak, outside of playing an injured QB as the only other option.  Its CMC and the Defense.

i think a lot of the baby goat and he's the next tb is tongue in cheek, at least i know it is for me.  i know i'm just unbelievably stoked we have a backup qb who can thread some needles and doesn't look completely lost.  its so much better than pickles running backwards and throwing the ball backwards with 2 hands

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd have to add I really hate the whole "we're winning in spite of him" idea. It could easily be said of half the players on the field. Heck, the last time he was in a game, Donte Jackson looked like he was playing flag football but he also made a big interception. Did we "win in spite of him" too?

I strongly feel that the 3 lost fumbles of the guy we routinely say has amazing pocket awareness, one which lead directly to a touchdown had a much larger impact in a low scoring game than anything Jackson did.  And I know, the line needed to block better at points.  But I guess I feel that a person who has *amazing pocket awareness* would be able to.  I dunno.  Be aware.  Of things.  In the pocket.

I am not trying to say Newton is perfect.  I dont feel my point is complicated.

But I trust a healthy Newton to get more than ~230 yards of offense and less than 2.5 turn overs a game.