Cam vs Kyle

[panthers55]

What is a healthy 100% Cam. The guy in 2015, the guy in 2018 before the shoulder injury or the 30 year old guy in 2020 who is never going to be back to what he was,  given time marches on and injuries are cumulative. Depending on which guy we have depends on whether we see Cam in our plans for the next 5 or 6 years.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, PantherBrew said:

Cap space is overrated as fug.  

The only thing that matters is when/if Cam can get healthy.  End of discussion. 

Disagree about the cap, but even accepting the premise, that "if" part is kind of a big deal.

And health isn't really the only factor. You have to consider age also.

[raz]

22 minutes ago, PantherBrew said:

Cap space is overrated as fug.  

 

that doesn't even make sense

[AU-panther]

16 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

Time will tell. We know Allen is a good enough backup which itself is relieving. We had no idea how either would be at the beginning of the year. Teams will continue to get tape on Allen and he will need to continue developing, but the longer he plays, his real time game experience goes up which is extremely beneficial. We just have to wait and see it play out. Another interesting situation is if Cam returns later in the year, lights it up and leads us to playoff victories, then you could trade Allen for a 1st, and develop Grier and keep a vet as insurance. 

If Allen plays well enough to warrant a 1st, I'm guessing the team would keep him over Cam.

Here again, take Allen out of the equation, would you give Cam a huge contract extension this offseason based off of the last 3 years and his age?

[raz]

i think i'd let cam take as long as he needs, if its the whole year so be it.  we gotta see if he can hold up for a whole season and play his position well.  we don't really know about the shoulder yet.  we don't know if allen is a viable replacement just yet.   if it turns out we got lucky as hell with allen i'd make the tough decision and move on.   if allen isn't really a good starting level qb in the league we see if cam can get through a whole season - and if he can and plays well we pay him. that's what i'd do.  i'm not married to players any more.  went through that with jake

[Navy_football]

Ideally the team keeps Cam. He'll be healthy week 8 or 9 and tearing it up by week 10. 

Now, do we get to keep all of the new toys - Samuel, CMC, DJ Moore, Moton and Donte on defense if Cam stays?

Who do we lose? Do we care?

Are we confident in Hurney 2.0's ability to draft more weapons to replace them?

New free agents are exciting, but to lose a stud that was drafted here would really sting.

Would hate to keep Cam and put him back in the same position he's been in for way too long.

[grimesgoat]

6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

If Allen plays well enough to warrant a 1st, I'm guessing the team would keep him over Cam.

Here again, take Allen out of the equation, would you give Cam a huge contract extension this offseason based off of the last 3 years and his age?

To me, it doesn't really matter how well Kyle Allen plays this season.

Cam is a 30-year RB/QB.  You don't tie up 120-140 million in cap over the next 4 years on a guy that may or may not ever be as good as he was in 2015.

You've got your weapons on offense.  You have promising young developing Tackles. Draft a mauling Guard next year in the second.  And use Allen/Grier as game managers.

We have one of the better defenses in the league.  Use the cap and the first rounder to build something historic.  Defense wins championships.

[catnip]

If Allen continues to improve , try a trade for Cam and use the extra cash to give to CMC and a quality FA .

[Bartin]

The issue with Cam is even if he does return to 100% health, how can you in any way be confident that he is going to stay healthy? His body is just breaking down. Signing him to a big money extension then having him constantly being hurt could cripple the franchise for next several years. I almost think you have to look to move on from Cam.

I don’t know that Allen is the answer yet. He has had a promising start but he obviously has a long way to go before he proves he’s a legit NFL starter. Grier is an unknown who still needs a lot of development.

Definitely sucks that now that we have a great defense and what looks to be a very good offensive supporting cast that QB is now the thing that could be holding us back.

[CPcavedweller]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

First of all, let me say I hope they both play well, because ultimately that is what is better for the Panthers, but when it comes time to decide what to do you have to factor in salary cap implications.

Next season is Cams final year of his current contract.  This offseason would be the logical time to extend Cam, most players, especially high level QBs like Cam are going to expect to be extended before their last year.  So even without the emergence of Kyle there were going to be some tough decisions to be made by the organization this offseason.

From what I understand we have Kyle on a really cheap deal for the next 3 years.  Cutting Cam next year would save about $19m in 2020.  If Cam comes back healthy and plays well he is going to expect something in the $30+m range, which he should, that is the going rate for quality starting QBs now.

So the question is really do you go with Cam? or Kyle + an extra 20-35m in cap space?

Think about it in terms of personnel,  Cam or Kyle + Clowney or Chris Jones + random $10m free agent. No guarantee either will be available but to illustrate a point.  Or more cap to resign one of our younger guys that we might not be able to normally keep.

Also, what if Kyle wasn't playing well?  Would it be a lock for us to resign Cam?  I'm not convinced it would be, given his injury history and age. Also not to mention we have a new owner.  At some point he might want his own GM and that GM might want his own coach, and that coach might want his own QB.

It is definitely going to be an interesting year and off season.  How Kyle plays the rest of the season could definitely make the decision easier, but if Kyle plays bad that doesn't mean you automatically resign Cam.  You don't pay a guy $35m just because you don't have another option, if that is the case you go find another option.  If he is healthy and playing well you strongly consider paying him what the market dictates though.

Personally I could really see the team moving on from Cam this offseason and/or Cam wanting out.  He is going to want a long term deal and I'm not convinced the team wants to.  Under that scenario best case for the team is that Cam comes back healthy to help his trade value.  I'm not convinced its as high as some on here think.

I think that depending on the QB market, even though we drafted Grier, if there is a 1st round QB that would be in position that the Panthers liked a lot, you take him and build up our core with the expectation of making a push while the new guy is on a rookie contract. Seems to be the norm now for young teams who have cash available to build around a young QB. Unless you have a guy like Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, or Brees, you aren't likely to be going to and winning a Super Bowl with a QB taking up as much Cap Space as they are commanding now. 

[CPcavedweller]

8 minutes ago, Bartin said:

The issue with Cam is even if he does return to 100% health, how can you in any way be confident that he is going to stay healthy? His body is just breaking down. Signing him to a big money extension then having him constantly being hurt could cripple the franchise for next several years. I almost think you have to look to move on from Cam.

I don’t know that Allen is the answer yet. He has had a promising start but he obviously has a long way to go before he proves he’s a legit NFL starter. Grier is an unknown who still needs a lot of development.

Definitely sucks that now that we have a great defense and what looks to be a very good offensive supporting cast that QB is now the thing that could be holding us back.

That's why I was in favor of IR'ing him. He needs time to take off as he hasn't missed many games in 8 full years of playing. Let him study the game, rehab, heal, relax, and not have the weight of the entire organization on his shoulders for a couple of months. 

[DCR]

As  I  said  in  the  diet  thread , if  Cam  has  lost  30  pounds , he  is  not  the  same  player , plus  his  injuries  and  age ,   

Kyle  has  a  lot  to  prove  to  become  a  franchise  quarterback  especially now  teams  have  tape  of  him .

I  hope  one  of  them , or  both , take  us  to  the  playoffs , but  if  not  Tepper has  big  decisions to  make .

 

[run-run-pass-punt]

Kyle + an extra 20-35m in cap space.

Football is about building the best team you can. And as important as the QB position obviously is, there are factors to consider.

I love Cam, but in order to keep him we would have to commit significant resources over a relatively long term. He's a QB who's best strengths are his physical presence in both the run game along with his arm-strength. These strengths have been diminished by recent injuries. Generally players don't get less injury prone as they age.

So, for me, the best thing to do for the team is to move forward with a young and cheap QB who has shown enough to think he can, at the minimum, manage the offense relatively efficiently going forward. And I think he's also shown potential to be more than just an adequate player at the position. Not to mention we just invested a 3rd rounder on a developmental QB.

Spread out those available funds by letting go of Cam to address some other weaknesses.

And if KA and Grier end up busting, we return to the draft like teams always have to do sooner or later.

[Jon Snow]

42 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

If Allen plays well enough to warrant a 1st, I'm guessing the team would keep him over Cam.

Here again, take Allen out of the equation, would you give Cam a huge contract extension this offseason based off of the last 3 years and his age?

No.  Even if Allen is just a flash in the pan.  I'm drafting another QB and scouring the UDFA pool.