N/P: Breaking News: Gov. Gavin Newsom of California will sign a bill to let college athletes make endorsement deals

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

And now you're pooing unrelated posts I've made in other threads just because you don't like what I said here. Very mature.

4Corners is one of the deep stable of Huddle garbage posters. It's probably just 20 people with a couple of dozen alt accounts. 

[4Corners]

6 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

And now you're pooing unrelated posts I've made in other threads just because you don't like what I said here. Very mature.

I didn’t care for the second Pink Floyd reference. One is enough. 

[4Corners]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

4Corners is one of the deep stable of Huddle garbage posters. It's probably just 20 people with a couple of dozen alt accounts. 

You can call me garbage, and a part of the “deep state” of the huddle, but how dare you associate me with the likes of Chuck and PU. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

You can call me garbage, and a part of the “deep state” of the huddle, but how dare you associate me with the likes of Chuck and PU. 

Lol. Even though you are a garbage poster, that was probably a low blow.

[raz]

1 hour ago, 4Corners said:

So cheating and breaking the rules are ok as long as duke is doing it? You sure u a UNC fan?

why do you think that all former duke basketball assistants take HC gigs at private schools? It’s because the cheating is easier and it’s harder for investigators to connect the dots - they learned that from the Rat himself. 

totally a fan, but of the teams and not of the whole university like i use to be. like when i was a child growing up watching phil ford and mike o'koren and kuester.... and dean smith gave me a lot of wonderful things to believe in as a person.  when they hired matt dougherty and then the resulting academic bs a lot of that other love passed because that time at carolina passed. 

and when there are kids that grew up in homes where they had to choose between power or water  - which is a choice my family never had to make, hell yes i'm ok with the kids being able to get what they can for their family

[1of10Charnatives]

10 hours ago, 4Corners said:

What “outside reporting” - don’t you dare link me to a Dan Kane or N&O article 

Let's start with this:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/index.html

I draw your attention in particular to these portions of the article especially:

In all, the report estimates, at least 3,100 students took the paper classes, but adds the number "very likely falls far short of the true number."

For the first time since the scandal first came to light five years ago, UNC admitted that the wrongdoing went further than academics and involved its athletic programs.

In fact, Folt said, "it was a university issue."

 

This passage confirms two important points about the scandal 1. That it was widespread, not limited. 2. That the university has admitted publicly to wrongdoing regarding both academically and in the athletic programs. If the university has admitted it, why can't you?

 

"Four employees have been fired and five more disciplined because of their roles."

 

This is a clear indicator that the problem did not involve a single rogue administrator in the AFAM dept as the university tried to maintain for a long time. You don't fire people if they did nothing wrong from a state run institution, it's about as clear an invitation to wrongful termination lawsuits as you can get.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-unc-athletics-slide-fake-classes-sanctions-decision-2017-10

 

You should take a look at this article and in particular the image of the slide that was used as part of a presentation to football coaches detailing exactly how fake classes were used to keep some players eligible. The NCAA itself acknowledges this slide was shown to football coaches, so the notion that coaches might somehow have been unaware of what was going on goes out the window.

 

Regarding the notion that the NCAA cleared the university of any wrongdoing: this is at best a half truth. The NCAA hid behind a legal fig leaf, saying it could take no action because it does not have purview over academic integrity of member institutions and because the scandal was not 100% athelete oriented (some non athletes took the classes as well) that the issue was beyond it's purview.  This is akin to me saying that because my kids weren't the only ones in a mob that beat up your kids, I can't do anything to punish them. While the argument may be legally valid, let's not pretend it in any way means bad things weren't happening. There is far too much evidence to the contrary.

 

Here is a NY times article covering that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/sports/unc-north-carolina-ncaa.html

 

Please note that the article makes mention of the fact that while this legalistic approach was employed to get the NCAA off the hook of having to actually punish the university (although it did impose penalties on the football program specifically at an earlier date), the severity of the scandal academically was such that UNC had it's accreditation placed on probation by the relevant body. That is no small thing at all.

 

If you're inclined to pretend this was a football only problem, note that the independant report done by Kenneth Wainstein documented 226 times basketball players were enrolled in these classes from 1999 to 2009.  With 13 scholarship players per year, this means that the entire team would have averaged nearly two of these classes per year over that span.

 

https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/13/16471704/north-carolina-academic-fraud-ncaa-investigation-findings

 

Many many new organizations have covered this scandal beyond a reporter you probably have a legitimate claim was engaged in a witch hunt, and a newspaper you don't like (most likely because they did a lot of reporting on it you didn't care for.) This wasn't some case of local papers on a crusade. Major national news outlets investigated and verified six ways from sunday that cheating to inflate grades and keep athletes eligible went on for years.

 

Now can we all just admit that the system is broken and needs reform? I might be a Duke fan, but I'm also a proud NC native who believes the rivalry is great not just because they are two storied programs, but because they are two excellent universities that should stand for things we can aspire to, not be ashamed of. It doesn't make me dance with glee to point out UNC's shortcomings, it makes me  disapointed. Dean Smith's legacy was one of genuine caring for the young men he instructed. That included their development as players, as students, and as people. This sort of shortcutting that cynically exploits talented athletes without truly investing in their betterment doesn't belong at the university he was always proud to represent.

 

It doesn't belong at Duke either, and to the extent that our program has lost it's way I'm just as dismayed at what is happening there. Everyone is doing it isn't an excuse, and while I don't have any problems with young men who have often come from impoverished backgrounds finding a way to get something in exchange for their talents, and anyone who blindly defends the multi billion dollar system that exploits them can bite me, I do think that if we as fans just sit here and snipe at each other about which school is worse or wag our fingers at each other over who got caught last, we're sorely missing the point. The japanese have a great saying for this sort of thing:

 

Fix the problem, not the blame.

 

The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one. Do you want to fix the problem, or do you want to point fingers?

[4Corners]

1 hour ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Let's start with this:

https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/index.html

I draw your attention in particular to these portions of the article especially:

In all, the report estimates, at least 3,100 students took the paper classes, but adds the number "very likely falls far short of the true number."

For the first time since the scandal first came to light five years ago, UNC admitted that the wrongdoing went further than academics and involved its athletic programs.

In fact, Folt said, "it was a university issue."

 

This passage confirms two important points about the scandal 1. That it was widespread, not limited. 2. That the university has admitted publicly to wrongdoing regarding both academically and in the athletic programs. If the university has admitted it, why can't you?

 

"Four employees have been fired and five more disciplined because of their roles."

 

This is a clear indicator that the problem did not involve a single rogue administrator in the AFAM dept as the university tried to maintain for a long time. You don't fire people if they did nothing wrong from a state run institution, it's about as clear an invitation to wrongful termination lawsuits as you can get.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-unc-athletics-slide-fake-classes-sanctions-decision-2017-10

 

You should take a look at this article and in particular the image of the slide that was used as part of a presentation to football coaches detailing exactly how fake classes were used to keep some players eligible. The NCAA itself acknowledges this slide was shown to football coaches, so the notion that coaches might somehow have been unaware of what was going on goes out the window.

 

Regarding the notion that the NCAA cleared the university of any wrongdoing: this is at best a half truth. The NCAA hid behind a legal fig leaf, saying it could take no action because it does not have purview over academic integrity of member institutions and because the scandal was not 100% athelete oriented (some non athletes took the classes as well) that the issue was beyond it's purview.  This is akin to me saying that because my kids weren't the only ones in a mob that beat up your kids, I can't do anything to punish them. While the argument may be legally valid, let's not pretend it in any way means bad things weren't happening. There is far too much evidence to the contrary.

 

Here is a NY times article covering that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/sports/unc-north-carolina-ncaa.html

 

Please note that the article makes mention of the fact that while this legalistic approach was employed to get the NCAA off the hook of having to actually punish the university (although it did impose penalties on the football program specifically at an earlier date), the severity of the scandal academically was such that UNC had it's accreditation placed on probation by the relevant body. That is no small thing at all.

 

If you're inclined to pretend this was a football only problem, note that the independant report done by Kenneth Wainstein documented 226 times basketball players were enrolled in these classes from 1999 to 2009.  With 13 scholarship players per year, this means that the entire team would have averaged nearly two of these classes per year over that span.

 

https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/13/16471704/north-carolina-academic-fraud-ncaa-investigation-findings

 

Many many new organizations have covered this scandal beyond a reporter you probably have a legitimate claim was engaged in a witch hunt, and a newspaper you don't like (most likely because they did a lot of reporting on it you didn't care for.) This wasn't some case of local papers on a crusade. Major national news outlets investigated and verified six ways from sunday that cheating to inflate grades and keep athletes eligible went on for years.

 

Now can we all just admit that the system is broken and needs reform? I might be a Duke fan, but I'm also a proud NC native who believes the rivalry is great not just because they are two storied programs, but because they are two excellent universities that should stand for things we can aspire to, not be ashamed of. It doesn't make me dance with glee to point out UNC's shortcomings, it makes me  disapointed. Dean Smith's legacy was one of genuine caring for the young men he instructed. That included their development as players, as students, and as people. This sort of shortcutting that cynically exploits talented athletes without truly investing in their betterment doesn't belong at the university he was always proud to represent.

 

It doesn't belong at Duke either, and to the extent that our program has lost it's way I'm just as dismayed at what is happening there. Everyone is doing it isn't an excuse, and while I don't have any problems with young men who have often come from impoverished backgrounds finding a way to get something in exchange for their talents, and anyone who blindly defends the multi billion dollar system that exploits them can bite me, I do think that if we as fans just sit here and snipe at each other about which school is worse or wag our fingers at each other over who got caught last, we're sorely missing the point. The japanese have a great saying for this sort of thing:

 

Fix the problem, not the blame.

 

The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have one. Do you want to fix the problem, or do you want to point fingers?

[1of10Charnatives]

4 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

So you don't want to face cold hard facts that you don't like. Unsurprising. Guess you're just gonna keep your head in the sand.

[arbnranger]

@1of10Charnatives you are new to me. 

I have enjoyed some of your posts but I think the new call sign for you is EB.

Still getting to know your vibe but you can’t be an alt because no one writes like you do. 

stick around, you can be my divorce attorney 

 

oh .....

Eb , ....that stands for Encyclopedia Brittanica.  

[1of10Charnatives]

27 minutes ago, arbnranger said:

@1of10Charnatives you are new to me. 

I have enjoyed some of your posts but I think the new call sign for you is EB.

Still getting to know your vibe but you can’t be an alt because no one writes like you do. 

stick around, you can be my divorce attorney 

 

oh .....

Eb , ....that stands for Encyclopedia Brittanica.  

I've been called worse.

Question, why would people bother to do alt accounts on a sports message board?

Do they really care that much that they can't just put whatever they say under one name? 

[arbnranger]

3 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I've been called worse.

Question, why would people bother to do alt accounts on a sports message board?

Do they really care that much that they can't just put whatever they say under one name? 

Good question..

I would assume most times it is a troll account to get attention or to piss someone off. 
I don’t remember you being here very long so welcome aboard. 

[raz]

5 hours ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I've been called worse.

Question, why would people bother to do alt accounts on a sports message board?

Do they really care that much that they can't just put whatever they say under one name? 

pls don't try and figure that out.     you just gotta let crazy be crazy, and not make you crazy.  btw that was an excellent post about unc's issues.   appreciate it.   they're still my teams but that stuff and matt dougherty did it for me with the mini-worship i grew up with.

[4Corners]

Again, I am for the players being fairly compensated and I agree that they are exploited  from everyone involved including the NCAA and TV networks. 
 

however, this is going to make cheating easier and this will be taken advantage of by programs. We all know that if a top player commits to duke - their parents get a cushy “consulting” job from Nike and a house in Colvard Farms. Not to mention the insane amounts of cash that is passed around there from boosters. 
 

commit to duke - we will hook your parents up with a 200k job from Nike and give you an exclusive endorsement deal with a really nice neighborhood. we will even let you work on your duke “degree” at nearby NC-Central and give you bullshit classes. What a unethical, unscrupulous cheating cesspool of corruption in Durham. 
 

 

Teams like Clempson, UK, Bama, duke, Ohio State will exploit the hell out of this and it will basically end the idea of amateurism. 
 

 

[4Corners]

On 9/30/2019 at 11:17 AM, jfra78 said:

I would rather there be some kind of salary. It seems that a lot of underhanded things that could be done with endorsements

That is exactly what is going to happen. Leslie McDonald was suspended at UNC several years ago because some custom mouth guard company was using his image without his consent.