“The manner in which teams disclose (or don’t disclose) injuries is unfair to injured players”

[Bartin]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Also, those quotes from Greg Olsen...Ouch!

While I have no doubt that what Greg said is very common throughout the league, I think that’s mostly how he feels. Olsen tries to play through everything. If he can possibly play then he is going to play.

I also think that’s how Cam feels. They are two ultra competitive guys that hate not being on the field. They have the “warrior mentality” that everyone loves and announcers jerk off to but is also not really the best for ones personal health.

[grimesgoat]

3 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

I'm betting some to all of the anti-Cam and pro-Rivera element (but I repeat myself) will be perfectly willing to believe Olsen.

For reasons.

I guess I'll go.  I'm actually pro-Cam and pro-Rivera.

To me its pretty simple.  Football is for tough men.  These are big strong men hurling themselves at each other.  Everyone will be in pain.  Everyone plays hurt.  You are playing a tough man game so you better show everyone you are tough.  If you can't manage the pain and tough it out, you will not be around long.  And if you are not around, you can't make a salary 20x more that the typical 25-year old Joe.

Cam is a grown ass man.  He's a tough guy.  He's in pain, but hes no pussy - he wants to play.  The adrenaline (and probably painkillers) will temporarily mask the discomfort.   He, like all players, tell the coaches he can play through it.  Coaches know their players do this.  And as long as the pain is not hampering the team's chances to win, they will send them out there.

If Cam said 'I'm too hurt to play - sit me', and Rivera put him out there anyway - then that's on Rivera.  But Cam is a tough guy - and I would be very surprised if he ever said anything like that. 

I appreciate Cam giving it a go and trying to help the team over the years despite the pain.  Rivera could have said 'no you're injuries are hurting the team and you can't play' but instead he allowed Cam to try. Rivera haters will say 'he's jut trying to save his job'.  Panther fans will say 'he's trying to win the game'.  Football players will say 'he's showing loyalty and respect to his guy, giving him a chance to compete'.

 

 

[Shotgun]

18 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Seeing what we've seen from Allen, you think Rivera would've preferred to have an injured Cam Newton who wouldn't even dodge, duck, dip, dive, or dodge from on coming rushers? He wouldn't even try to roll out of the pocket? He wouldn't even try to put pressure on his front foot to drive the football? You think a coach who wants to win wants to see his quarterback overthrow his wide open receivers by 8 yards? Miss sideline throws to Olsen that Cam has made his entire career?

You want to basically blame Rivera for Cam feigning ignorance when asked how his foot was holding up? With Allen we probably beat the Bucs by two scores. With an injured Cam, who also didn't try to run against LA, we were in tight with those two games when they didn't have to be. 

Blame Rivera all you want, but his tone following the Thursday Night Game when asked about the play call tells you all you need to know. Cam was injured and I think that was the first time it really hit him that the foot was an issue. Cam was then forced to come clean about it and they addressed the issue by leaving him in Charlotte "to rehab". There are stories you guys are missing by being unable to read between the lines here. 

My 10 year old daughter can tell Cams injured by the way he plays, you saying Rivera cant ? He knew where Cam was injury wise and kept him out there.

[Waldo]

How we handled Cam last year was unacceptable. He was obviously visibly injured and we allowed it to continue. This year, more of the same. What the player wants is important but the team should protect their assets better. The dont ask dont tell strategy is BS. I get being quite and a little misdirection but willful ignorance is a bad strategy.

The only thing I can't believe is we haven't been investigated for lying about known injuries.

[CPcavedweller]

2 hours ago, Shotgun said:

My 10 year old daughter can tell Cams injured by the way he plays, you saying Rivera cant ? He knew where Cam was injury wise and kept him out there.

I'm saying that if Cam isn't forthcoming about the pain, you don't bench your $90 Million QB based on play alone. You can't sit back and say, "well he says his foot doesn't hurt, but he's playing like crap, so lets pull him." That's not how it works here. Then you're benching Cam for Kyle Allen, an undrafted free agent player who most wrote off when he transferred from Texas A&M and got benched at his next stop. 

So what i'm saying is that Cam doesn't ever seem to be honest about the extent to which his pain is hindering his ability to do basic things. With Rivera calling the defense, he isn't watching the offense as much or clicking over to the offensive line on the headset while the offense is on the field. Essentially leaving the offense up to Norv and the assistants. 

I'd imagine that after the press conference following the Tampa game, Rivera went to Cam and asked him about the pain in his foot. They said Cam went to Rivera to let him know but I don't think that was the case. I'd think Rivera noticed Cam didn't get the call on that 4th and 2 inch play, Cam couldn't drive the ball, and Cam wasn't trying to avoid sacks. So at that point you have to ask what's going on and hope for an honest answer.

Perhaps your 10 year old should be the head coach? 

And do you really believe Cam was left in Charlotte to rehab? If he has a Lisfranc Injury, he could be in a boot on the sideline. I think there is more to the story that isn't being told publicly. 

[CPcavedweller]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

How we handled Cam last year was unacceptable. He was obviously visibly injured and we allowed it to continue. This year, more of the same. What the player wants is important but the team should protect their assets better. The dont ask dont tell strategy is BS. I get being quite and a little misdirection but willful ignorance is a bad strategy.

The only thing I can't believe is we haven't been investigated for lying about known injuries.

These guys get paid millions (some) and have performance bonus' in their contracts contingent on them being in the game. You think the "don't ask don't tell" is purely the fault of the organizations? 

[Waldo]

24 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

These guys get paid millions (some) and have performance bonus' in their contracts contingent on them being in the game. You think the "don't ask don't tell" is purely the fault of the organizations? 

If you read the post it says visibly noticable. Yes they have incentive but also look to Greg's quote. Your naritave has a Madonna sized hole in it.

[Bartin]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

How we handled Cam last year was unacceptable. He was obviously visibly injured and we allowed it to continue. This year, more of the same. What the player wants is important but the team should protect their assets better. The dont ask dont tell strategy is BS. I get being quite and a little misdirection but willful ignorance is a bad strategy.

The only thing I can't believe is we haven't been investigated for lying about known injuries.

Because if they investigate us then they would have to investigate 31 other teams too. Everyone does it.

I will say one thing about it. I think it started under Tepper or got worse. I remember a comment from Ron a few years that the injury report was not something they were allowed to mess around with and that the order came down from the top meaning Jerry. Then last year in Tepper’s first year as the owner everything started getting a lot more mysterious with the injury report.

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Because if they investigate us then they would have to investigate 31 other teams too. Everyone does it.

I will say one thing about it. I think it started under Tepper or got worse. I remember a comment from Ron a few years that the injury report was not something they were allowed to mess around with and that the order came down from the top meaning Jerry. Then last year in Tepper’s first year as the owner everything started getting a lot more mysterious with the injury report.

Very true about the change, good observation. Not sure if there is enough information to assign responsibility to any one party yet but the change is there as you stated.

I know everyone does it but it is very high profile example where he did not look healthy and yet we didn't have him on the injury report, last year or this year. I dont want it to happen, I'm just surprised that the fumbling of the matter hasn't resulted into at least a peak by the league or that our completion hasn't called us out for it.

[Bartin]

3 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Very true about the change, good observation. Not sure if there is enough information to assign responsibility to any one party yet but the change is there as you stated.

I know everyone does it but it is very high profile example where he did not look healthy and yet we didn't have him on the injury report, last year or this year. I dont want it to happen, I'm just surprised that the fumbling of the matter hasn't resulted into at least a peak by the league or that our completion hasn't called us out for it.

Well we did start putting Cam on the report when he started missing some practices around week 7 or week 8, but it was pretty clear something was wrong prior to that. That was really when we were forced to since hiding missing part of practice is really tough to do and would be met with much greater penalties.

Cam not being on there to start the year for his foot or shoulder was pretty surprising given what we saw the first 2 weeks even though he never missed any practice reps. There is a full participant category on the injury report meant specifically for that.

[NYPantherFan]

The one thing that irks me about Rivera and how he handled Cam's foot is how he stood up there and denied there was anything wrong with his foot. By doing that, he left Cam out there to take a beating over the course of the next week from the local and national media speculating that this was the last we have seen him in Carolina, that he was washed up and not the same player because he was refusing to run and attacking his character on and off the field. If I were Cam, I'd have some words for Ron after all that.

[panthers55]

47 minutes ago, NYPantherFan said:

The one thing that irks me about Rivera and how he handled Cam's foot is how he stood up there and denied there was anything wrong with his foot. By doing that, he left Cam out there to take a beating over the course of the next week from the local and national media speculating that this was the last we have seen him in Carolina, that he was washed up and not the same player because he was refusing to run and attacking his character on and off the field. If I were Cam, I'd have some words for Ron after all that.

If you are a football player you don't need to stay focused on the media or what they think. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Cam was not himself. And anything Cam says will appear to be an excuse. The point of not discussing the foot until the decision was made to sit him was to protect him from intentional abuse from opponents who use everything they can to gain an advantage and would target him. No one threw him under the bus. What a crazy idea from a coach who goes out of his way to take up for Cam at every turn.