Robinson: Cam Newton’s injury sets up defining point for new Panthers owner David Tepper

[thefuzz]

22 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

1. You don’t hand someone the starting kicker job because he made 2/2 field goals in preseason...that would be pretty irresponsible IMO, especially in light of the Aguayo fiasco (who also had a pretty good rookie preseason himself). He simply didn’t come close to earning the job...if you want to blame someone for the handling of that situation, it’s Rivera for not giving him the proper opportunity to earn the job in preseason. Hurney acted appropriately IMO in rolling with the vet until the team felt comfortable enough with the rookie. It’s not like he outright cut Butker...he kept two kickers on the active roster to start the season and demoted Butker to the practice squad when there should have been relatively minimal risk of him being poached (a 7th round rookie with two preseason kicks to his name)...until KC unfortunately had an injury and were in the market for a new kicker. 
Since you appear to be taking a consequentialist approach with regards to a GM’s moves, then if Slye ends up exceeding our wildest expectations and drastically outperforms Butker for his career, would that make that Gano/Butker situation a good move then? Since keeping Butker would mean we’d never have signed Slye? This is what happens when you go down that rabbit hole.

2. I’ll acknowledge the Olsen extension was probably not a smart move, given the circumstances at the time...I didn’t realize it was made after his injury.

3. Bottom line is that it was in the offseason and had no bearing on the team’s success...which is how I thought we were judging a GM. The district judge ruled that there was no evidence of wrongdoing on Hurney’s part and his ex-wife withdrew her complaint. If, for example, one of our players were wrongfully accused of rape and the charges were dismissed...would you blame that player for being a distraction?

4. Seems awfully speculative. Are you  arguing that some backup vet QB would have gotten us to the playoffs? It’s not hard to imagine that if we had a vet stopgap backup QB on our roster, that it would have been Allen’s position he’d be taking...which would have been quite unfortunate for us. I also don’t understand your argument...if you’re arguing that this guy should’ve told that guy to tell that guy, then why not blame Tepper for not telling Hurney sooner to tell Ron to tell Cam to sit? Why does the buck stop with Hurney and not Tepper? The way an organization works is that each position has their own designated responsibilities and has to entrust the other management personnel to do their jobs. Otherwise literally everything is Tepper’s fault and I don’t know why we’re having this discussion.

5. Is Poe playing well this season or not? I would argue it did not look great last season, but is looking good now.

6. You do know that the players you listed play different positions? You can’t just categorize all of them broadly as “DT”s...we were transitioning into a 3-4 defense and had a hole at 3-4 DE, which is where McCoy fits. Poe and Butler are 3-4 NTs...which leaves Short and Love at 3-4 DE. Love is a backup best suited in a rotation, hence McCoy being a need.

8. Gaulden essentially had a redshirt year and has missed two games this year and is back to practicing in full and presumably playing on Sunday. Not sure how you can draw any conclusions on him yet.

9. Sure, jury is still out...agreed.

1:  Gano had missed 8 FG's in 16 so we drafted a K.  We sign him to a 4 year CHEAP contract, and he misses zero kicks in the preseason.  Gano missed 1 by the way.  Ron and Marty go with the OLDER, more expensive vet, that was running out of contract over the younger, cheaper, long term deal in Butker.  Then we overpaid.....do you remember Mare?  You should, and the contract that he got.  It was dumb then, it's dumb now, and now we have a broken kicker making a lot of money who we owe more money to next year.  Bad GM'ing.

2:  Olsen, under contract and injured.  Bad GM'ing.

3:  I hope we never have to deal with that type of stuff off the field again, I would like to say that I would support the player until the not guilty verdict, but that's not the way it works in the NFL any longer.  Was there any type of payoff in that situation from Marty?  Either way, bad optics, but glad it came to nothing.

4: We were 6-2 at one point last season.  The Steelers game would have been a loss no matter what.  However, were we to have had a good backup maybe Ron puts him in when it was painfully obvious to anyone with eyes that Cam could not play football?  Speculation?  Sure, however, had we had a GM with a spine, he would have called Ron into his office, told him to shut down Cam and let him get healthy, and try to make the playoffs with the good backup that he had provided.  In essence, Ron didn't trust the youngins, and Marty didn't force a game tested vet onto the team, so they were both stuck.....and the fans got stuck with that epic collapse.  Yay Panthers.

5:  Poe has not looked good to me, maybe he turns a corner, we shall see.  He was flat out bad last season, but the entire defense was.  Stupid Ron.

6:  When I see us fully switch to the 3/4 I will bite on this one.  Yes I know there are multiple different positions at the DT position, my question is why do we have to have all of them, and fairly highly priced at that?  Only team with a run game we have played this year killed us with it.

8:  Gaulden, come back to me when he does something.

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Looking at individual transactions in a vacuum isn't how you evaluate a GM.

You have to look at the product that they  help put on the field.

Hurney has put up losing products year after year, with two different coaches.

I don't really care which individual moves we're good or bad if the overall product isn't good enough.

If you think the product on the field is bad don’t know what to tell you. 

You lose your mvp qb you’re usually picking top 5 the following year 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

If you think the product on the field is bad don’t know what to tell you. 

You lose your mvp qb you’re usually picking top 5 the following year 

We don't know that we're not.

We're 1-2.

[Cpt slay a ho]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We don't know that we're not.

We're 1-2.

Well by last year standards he’s responsible for the 7-9 record. With cam being injured

i guess he’s also responsible for Allen(if he’s the real deal) not being put in earlier last year and this year

[Mr. Scot]

31 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Well by last year standards he’s responsible for the 7-9 record. With cam being injured

i guess he’s also responsible for Allen(if he’s the real deal) not being put in earlier last year and this year

If you wanna completely absolve the GM from any responsibility for the record, then why did Ryan Grigson or Matt Millen get fired?

[Cpt slay a ho]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you wanna completely absolve the GM from any responsibility for the record, then why did Ryan Grigson or Matt Millen get fired?

Listing two of the worst gm’s in recent history and trying to draw a parallel to this discussion is quite possible the worst example.

Should the giants fire Dave Gettleman even though it’s clear they are rebuilding ? Circumstances play a huge factor into win/loss 

rams gm was held back by a incompetent head coach 

the examples are endless 

[MasterAwesome]

40 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Listing two of the worst gm’s in recent history and trying to draw a parallel to this discussion is quite possible the worst example.

Should the giants fire Dave Gettleman even though it’s clear they are rebuilding ? Circumstances play a huge factor into win/loss 

rams gm was held back by a incompetent head coach 

the examples are endless 

If he’s consistent in his logic, then he’d argue that Gettleman has put a poo product on the field cause he’s 6-13 overall and 1-2 this year. But something tells me that’s not his position 

[Cpt slay a ho]

23 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

If he’s consistent in his logic, then he’d argue that Gettleman has put a poo product on the field cause he’s 6-13 overall and 1-2 this year. But something tells me that’s not his position 

Which is my point, if we’re just going to ignore circumstances, than he’s just as good a gm as hurney if not worst based of last season and this one.

even if I’m not the biggest dg fan I’m impartial enough to understand the giants are in rebuild and expecting a winning seasons 2 years in his tenure is absurd.

[stratocatter]

I didn't like the Gano deal either. Not a big fan of him other than kickoffs. As far as money though, the only time I hate paying a kicker is when he misses.

If handcuffing the team with bad contracts is a bad thing, it logically follows that not handcuffing the team cap is a good thing.

But that was the thing. You didn't have to have experience or qualifications for Jerry Richardson to give you a job. All you had to be was loyal to him.

This is a good example here: leading with an unsubstantiated statement and following with the desired conclusion based on that as if it were fact.

That fits the very definition of specious to a "T". For the morons who don't know what specious means:

adjective

apparently good or right though lacking real merit; superficially pleasing or plausible: specious arguments.

-------------

And throwing words like moron around (okay see what I did there?). That ought to have some internet rule attached to it, like the Hitler one.

I still think it is all butt hurt Gettleman resentment and probably after investing tens of thousands of keystrokes defending him, can't back down. Well, hey, if you guys keep it up, sooner or later Tepper will fire him and maybe this crap will be over.

Be funny if someone else hired him. Rivera will get a job as quick as he wants one.

I hated Dave Gettleman's actions as GM so much that I made it personal. Couldn't stand to see him or hear him. But it is turning out that his last draft was excellent and I have to be honest and give credit where it is due. So, great job Dave, thanks. But stay gone.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Listing two of the worst gm’s in recent history and trying to draw a parallel to this discussion is quite possible the worst example.

Should the giants fire Dave Gettleman even though it’s clear they are rebuilding ? Circumstances play a huge factor into win/loss 

rams gm was held back by a incompetent head coach 

the examples are endless 

We were 12-4 the year Hurney took over.

Now two years later, we're rebuilding?

And if that's your assertion, then how does going from being in the playoffs to rebuilding serve to convince me that Marty is a good GM?

[Cpt slay a ho]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We were 12-4 the year Hurney took over.

Now two years later, we're rebuilding?

And if that's your assertion, then how does going from being in the playoffs to rebuilding serve to convince me that Marty is a good GM?

11-5 but I got what you were saying, which boils the question, he was interim gm at the time does he not get credit for that season ? 

Never said anything about the panthers rebuilding, BUT if newton is done, we will be In a similar situation.

The last part I don’t know how else to explain that one team fielded a healthy cam, the other fielded one until mid season, and this season isn’t fielding one at all 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

11-5 but I got what you were saying, which boils the question, he was interim gm at the time does he not get credit for that season ? 

Never said anything about the panthers rebuilding, BUT if newton is done, we will be In a similar situation.

The last part I don’t know how else to explain that one team fielded a healthy cam, the other fielded one until mid season, and this season isn’t fielding one at all 

Remind me, who exactly did Marty draft that offseason? What free agents did he sign?

And if the Panthers are rebuilding, are you really going to tell me you trust Marty Hurney to run it?

He might be better this time around, you say. Oh sure. Hey, I hear Matt Kalil is available. Maybe he'll be better this time too. We should give him another shot.

[MasterAwesome]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Remind me, who exactly did Marty draft that offseason? What free agents did he sign?

And if the Panthers are rebuilding, are you really going to tell me you trust Marty Hurney to run it?

He might be better this time around, you say. Oh sure. Hey, I hear Matt Kalil is available. Maybe he'll be better this time too. We should give him another shot.

Hurney is smart enough not to sign Matt Kalil...can’t say that about every GM lol.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Hurney is smart enough not to sign Matt Kalil...can’t say that about every GM lol.

Only smart enough to restructure / extend him / increase his cap hit, right?

Yeah, brilliant.