Robinson: Cam Newton’s injury sets up defining point for new Panthers owner David Tepper

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, hepcat said:

Clearly a hater focusing on the bad here...some good stuff you missed.

Fleecing the Bills by trading Kelvin Benjamin for a 3rd round pick

Trading for Torrey Smith: Not that good on the field, but obviously had a huge impact on mentoring Curtis Samuel and DJ Moore, who are good players. Also got him to take a paycut to sign Gerald McCoy, and cut him at a good time to save money.

Eric Reid: Good

Jarius Wright: Good

Joey Slye: Good

Matt Paradis: Decent so far, decent replacement for Kalil

And how do you know he won't extend Bradberry or Shaq yet?? They are still on the team. This is some crazy level hate.

 

 

 

What did we do with the 3rd from the Bills?

Reid = Good.

Wright = Good.

Slye =  Good.

Paradis = Not real sure just yet, doesn't pass the eye test yet.

Torrey = Not the worst trade.

Then we paid him 5M when there was no dead money...hence never pushing him to take a paycut, when we did, we gave him 1M for shits and giggles = Awful

Shaq and Bradberry should have been extended in the offseason, not when they are about to become FA's....that's just stupid.

[hepcat]

17 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

But I don't see that at all.  I am not sure I have seen anyone give anything close to the statements you are making.

I strongly feel his off season moves were great.  We had extremely limited cap space, and a ton of holes.  We got quality signings, on 1 year deals, for cheap, allowing our drafted players time to grow.

He did more than "ok" or "didnt screw us up too badly" this off season.  I am struggling to find many ways he could have done better.

All the hate comes from dudes who were probably burned by trying to get back together with their ex-gf because all they can seem to do his nitpick some moves that weren't home runs and ignore all the good moves he's made since he came back. Just look at the post a couple above this and you'll see what I'm talking about. 

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I think I will just step away from this conversation.

Painfully clear at this point people don't own dictionaries, don't know what they are talking about, and just hate Hurney. 

Hurney could say "the sky is blue" and people would call for him to be fired based on not giving the exact shade of blue.

Fine.  If you are happy with mediocrity then by all means keep sucking his cock.  But stop trying to convince us that we should be.  I want an actual qualified GM and not some hack that gets lucky once in a while. 

[Jon Snow]

Hurney, the King and hero of all the huddle armchair GM's. I love it.  

[hepcat]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

What did we do with the 3rd from the Bills?

Reid = Good.

Wright = Good.

Slye =  Good.

Paradis = Not real sure just yet, doesn't pass the eye test yet.

Torrey = Not the worst trade.

Then we paid him 5M when there was no dead money...hence never pushing him to take a paycut, when we did, we gave him 1M for shits and giggles = Awful

Shaq and Bradberry should have been extended in the offseason, not when they are about to become FA's....that's just stupid.

Gaulden has been hurt this season and practiced yesterday. It's too soon to call a 2nd year player a bust.

Can't say he won't re-sign Shaq and Bradberry before he doesn't. Team is going to have a lot of cap space to work with this offseason, especially if they cut or restructure Cam Newton's contract.

The only dead money they will have next season is Matt Kalil's contract, which was a Gettleman fug up. 

Hurney hasn't been awful, honestly he's been good. His drafts have netted starters and solid contributors and he hasn't made any really awful salary cap moves like he has in the past. The struggles the team have had can almost solely be pointed at the health of Cam Newton. I'd argue Hurney's worst mistake was not having a legit backup last season. If Kyle Allen pans out, this whole discussion is moot.

[thefuzz]

7 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Gaulden has been hurt this season and practiced yesterday. It's too soon to call a 2nd year player a bust.

Can't say he won't re-sign Shaq and Bradberry before he doesn't. Team is going to have a lot of cap space to work with this offseason, especially if they cut or restructure Cam Newton's contract.

The only dead money they will have next season is Matt Kalil's contract, which was a Gettleman fug up. 

Hurney hasn't been awful, honestly he's been good. His drafts have netted starters and solid contributors and he hasn't made any really awful salary cap moves like he has in the past. The struggles the team have had can almost solely be pointed at the health of Cam Newton. I'd argue Hurney's worst mistake was not having a legit backup last season. If Kyle Allen pans out, this whole discussion is moot.

So I state lots of facts/opinions of the bad things he's done.  You refute with a few good things he's done.  I agree with a couple, and disagree with a couple.

Now you state that he "hasn't made any really awful salary cap moves" like it's a good thing?  That kind of thinking scares me, and I'm one to believe that people really don't change that much, maybe I'm wrong.

Also, to the Bradberry deal, there was absolutely no reason not to extend him before the season began, that would have been a smart move as his price is doing nothing but going up.  Shaq I can somewhat understand, but he is a player, and we should have gotten that deal done as well.

If Marty is kept, and we need to field a football team in 2020, I just do not trust him with that many expiring contracts, and bringing in that much FA talent.  He just hasn't shown the ability to do that well.

[SpeedOFLight]

I don’t get all the hate towards our GM. Not every pick or FA will be a home run. It happens with every team. Now his first time around was alittle suspect but just like any person in life, he had the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. I think he has been pretty good since coming back.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nah. By all accounts Marty is a likable guy.

But of course, the people who aren't smart enough to actually discuss what's going on with him do tend to try to claim it's all emotional.

Case in point...

“Idiot”, “dumbass”, “moron”...sure...you don’t sound emotional at all...lol.

You want to actually discuss what’s going on with him...now? Or 10 years ago under a meddling owner who had emotional attachments to the very same players who Hurney was dishing out big contracts to? Wonder if there’s a connection there...hmm...

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

“Idiot”, “dumbass”, “moron”...sure...you don’t sound emotional at all...lol.

You want to actually discuss what’s going on with him...now? Or 10 years ago under a meddling owner who had emotional attachments to the very same players who Hurney was dishing out big contracts to? Wonder if there’s a connection there...hmm...

Nah.

[MasterAwesome]

Hurney supporters:

”He has seemingly learned from his mistakes and has done a better job this time around. He has drafted some solid players, has given out some bargain contracts, and signed some quality FAs. Jury is still out on some draft picks and some of his extensions”.

Hurney detractors:

”FUG this piece of poo dumbass moron! Y’all wanna suck on his big fat dick then go ahead! I’ll slap that idiot and his mother if I ever see him on the street! I will never forgive him for what he did 10 years ago”.

This is why these discussions are difficult to have in good faith...most of his detractors are way too emotional.

[hepcat]

43 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

So I state lots of facts/opinions of the bad things he's done.  You refute with a few good things he's done.  I agree with a couple, and disagree with a couple.

Now you state that he "hasn't made any really awful salary cap moves" like it's a good thing?  That kind of thinking scares me, and I'm one to believe that people really don't change that much, maybe I'm wrong.

Also, to the Bradberry deal, there was absolutely no reason not to extend him before the season began, that would have been a smart move as his price is doing nothing but going up.  Shaq I can somewhat understand, but he is a player, and we should have gotten that deal done as well.

If Marty is kept, and we need to field a football team in 2020, I just do not trust him with that many expiring contracts, and bringing in that much FA talent.  He just hasn't shown the ability to do that well.

I'm not sitting here saying Hurney is perfect. What I am saying his performance as GM is head and shoulders better than his first stint, and the people still judging him on his past failures need to get over it. The team is talented and it's not his fault the team has been struggling this year. Now if someone wants to debate if he is an elite GM compared to other GMs? Of course he is not. But he's also not the worst - I'd argue he's in the top half in his second go-round though. 

And I said that he hasn't made any awful cap moves because all of the hate he seems to get on this board comes from the memories of his first stint with the team. This time around, he has actually been pretty responsible with the cap. Yes he's made some not-so-cheap signings, but he also hasn't overspent or made any horrendous moves that could cripple the team for years to come. Every free agent signing he's made has seemed reasonable and at times, even signed players for a bargain. People were surprised how cheap Paradis and even Poe signed for, albeit the jury is still out if those were great signings. 

And again, how do you know Hurney didn't make an effort to re-sign Bradberry, and it wasn't Bradberry who decided to wait until next season? I remember reading an article about how Bradberry was "betting on himself" and gearing up for a big year. Maybe Hurney did try to make a deal. We just don't know. But either way, both Bradberry and Shaq are still on the team, and could definitely be re-signed this offseason. The team will have the cap space to do so. I just don't get how this is a knock on him when you a) don't know if Hurney did try to make a deal and b) they could still re-sign with the team. It just screams blind hatred to me. Now if both walk in the offseason with no effort to re-sign, then I agree that is dumb. But I doubt it happens.

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I'm not sitting here saying Hurney is perfect. What I am saying his performance as GM is head and shoulders better than his first stint, and the people still judging him on his past failures need to get over it. The team is talented and it's not his fault the team has been struggling this year. Now if someone wants to debate if he is an elite GM compared to other GMs? Of course he is not. But he's also not the worst - I'd argue he's in the top half in his second go-round though. 

And I said that he hasn't made any awful cap moves because all of the hate he seems to get on this board comes from the memories of his first stint with the team. This time around, he has actually been pretty responsible with the cap. Yes he's made some not-so-cheap signings, but he also hasn't overspent or made any horrendous moves that could cripple the team for years to come. Every free agent signing he's made has seemed reasonable and at times, even signed players for a bargain. People were surprised how cheap Paradis and even Poe signed for, albeit the jury is still out if those were great signings. 

And again, how do you know Hurney didn't make an effort to re-sign Bradberry, and it wasn't Bradberry who decided to wait until next season? I remember reading an article about how Bradberry was "betting on himself" and gearing up for a big year. Maybe Hurney did try to make a deal. We just don't know. But either way, both Bradberry and Shaq are still on the team, and could definitely be re-signed this offseason. The team will have the cap space to do so. I just don't get how this is a knock on him when you a) don't know if Hurney did try to make a deal and b) they could still re-sign with the team. It just screams blind hatred to me. Now if both walk in the offseason with no effort to re-sign, then I agree that is dumb. But I doubt it happens.

This seems like feelings instead of facts though. 

His FA signings have not proven to be good.  Maybe not bad, but not good.

The only contracts that he has extended, have been bad, not good.

He did find a couple of good players that he signed to contracts, but none that are in the top tier, Bradberry, Shaq, Moton (not sure if he can be extended yet, but if he can be, he should be already).

 

As to Bradberry betting on himself....maybe.  But you typically don't see that outside of the 1st rounders.  They haven't made much money yet, and it seems awfully risky to bet on himself, at that position, when he could have signed a deal.  I have been beating the table for a BB deal for a long time, don't need to break the bank if you sign him with a year to go.  Wait till he's a FA and it's a huge deal, or the tag...neither are good for the team.

I 100% agree with you that he hasn't been as bad as the first stint, I just think there were better options out there when he was brought back into the fold, and there are still better options now.

The Carolina Panthers are at a HUGE crossroads this offseason, I'm not comfortable in the least with Marty Hurney holding the reigns.  That is where my frustration lies.  Again, not mad at Marty, he is likely doing his best, I'm mad at Jerry for bringing him back, and Tepper holding onto him....all the while we are losing football games, and seemingly our starting QB.

[Jon Snow]

So let me see if I can understand the Hurney apologists rationale here.  His record for the teams he's built to date are 3 winning seasons in 11.   He would need to build teams that rattle off 8 consecutive winning seasons in a row to break even.  At his current pace it will take 32 years for him to accumulate 8 more winning seasons.  I will be long dead by then.  fug Hurney and the horse he rode in on.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

I'll jump in.

Gano/Butker = Bad.

Given the information at the time (Butker having a poor camp performance and being outperformed by Gano), I’m not sure how you can call that a bad move without going completely down the revisionist rabbit hole. Hitching your wagon to Butker would have been incredibly risky and unsubstantiated at the time. Also, given how he brought in someone who has the potential to be even better than Butker, not sure you can dog him too much about this one...unless you wanna argue that Butker would have led us to the playoffs last year.

Extending Trai = OK so far.  

Olsen extension = Bad.

How are you able to say that so definitively, given his performance this year?

Gano extension = Bad.

Extending a kicker after he led the league in FG% = bad? Without a backup plan? And you can’t say ”but Butker“ since you split Gano/Butker and Gano’s extension into two talking points. 

Getting investigated by the league = Bad.

If you’re bringing up a personal matter in the offseason that was dismissed, you seem to be reaching a little in my opinion. Do you want to argue that this had any impact on our 2018-2019 NFL season?

No experienced backup to our hurt QB last season = Bad

Why would this have mattered if Ron wasn’t willing to sit Cam anyways until the last two games? Also, no “experienced” backup? How about a competent one? Looks like we already potentially had that in Allen.

Poe signing = Not looking great.

Again, you can say that definitively with how Poe has performed this season?

McCoy signing = May turn out OK, not sure yet.

We signed a borderline elite player for $8 million at a position of need, thats a win in my book. Especially considering the Ravens offered him twice as much guaranteed...giving McCoy some leverage but Hurney not biting. That’s pretty good GMing IMO. 

Not extending Bradberry or Shaq = Bad. (Much prefer to extend the CB)

I would’ve preferred we extended Bradberry in the offseason as well, but he has always been a solid player..not sure this year is going to jack his price up too much more. He’s always quietly been a borderline shutdown corner.

Kicking the can on KK and TT = Bad.  (a very classic Hurney move)

It’s only bad if they don’t live up to their original contracts...but yeah I’m not a fan of these kinds of restructures so I’ll give that to you.

2018 draft = 1st and 2nd look good. (Gaulden looks like a really bad pick, no offensive linemen)

Gaulden is at least TBD right now...he looked like he made strides based on preseason. I’d add that Haynes, Carter Jr., and Andre Smith look like they could be quality depth players in later rounds.

2019 draft = Jury still out.  (traded up, and that's normally a really bad thing with Hurney)

Jury is still out indeed ...adding qualifiers like “Hurney traded up” without seeing how Little pans out is very premature.

 

 

Most of your critiques are either premature or subjective, with a bit of hindsight sprinkled in. I judge a GM’s moves based on what appear to be sound, rational decisions at the time they were made. Otherwise if you judge everything solely on the outcome, then you can say things like “oh Cockrell was a terrible signing cause he broke his leg”...as if that was something a GM could foresee.

Hurney also doesn’t get credit for certain solid moves due to Ron’s inability to capitalize. For example, the CJ Anderson signing was a great move...except for the fact that Ron/Norv didn’t utilize him. Hurney cutting him later on was inconsequential considering he wasn’t getting playing time anyways.