Robinson: Cam Newton’s injury sets up defining point for new Panthers owner David Tepper

[top dawg]

38 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Marty's first tenure covered eleven years.

In only three of those years did we have winning seasons.

That's what you see as average to above average?

Whatever mathematical method you're using, send me the info on it so I can convince my boss to use it on my performance reviews.

Personnel moves are personnel moves.  

[top dawg]

A GM's job is more than personnel moves from a player perspective. Now, if you want to argue that he stick with Fox too long, that's debatable. But, we had decent enough teams to compete, and dare I say competed more than most until Hurney got crazy with the contracts and J-Rich decided to gut the team. Of course, after you gut the team, there has to be a period of rebuilding. Some of you can look at things in a vacuum, but that's not how I roll.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Personnel moves are personnel moves.  

The NFL doesn't hand out trophies for personnel moves.

But even if they did, if you can't consistently build a winning roster with the head coach you hired, but somebody else can, that tells me you're probably not "above average" at your job.

[Mr. Scot]

I would add, as usual, the Hurney defense is to try desperately to talk about anything except winning.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Shotgun said:

Sure, but at some point the excuses become tiresome. His record speaks for itself.

I agree with your first point, but, like I alluded to, if you look at things in a vacuum, without taking circumstances and context into consideration, then you might regret it.

For example: Chucky won a championship with the Bucs. Never mind the fact that it was essentially Tony Dungy's team. Who was actually the better coach? Well, Dungy did ultimately win one with Manning. Still, it's hard to field championship teams, much less win the game. There are many facets to consider.

[MasterAwesome]

It’s crazy how we simply substitute an injured quarterback for a healthy one and all of a sudden we look like a competent, promising, complete team. It’s almost like......roster management hasn’t been the issue.

[top dawg]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The NFL doesn't hand out trophies for personnel moves.

But even if they did, if you can't consistently build a winning roster with the head coach you hired, but somebody else can, that tells me you're probably not "above average" at your job.

I didn't say he was "above average at his job." I was speaking only to personnel moves.

I've already agreed with the point that records are the bottom line, and that at some point "excuses get tiresome." If we have a losing season whether Cam plays or not, Tepper might clean house, and no one could hardly argue the point. But at the same time, he may decide to use a scalpel as opposed to an axe, and though I'm sure you'd probably argue with that, I wouldn't.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

I didn't say he was "above average at his job." I was speaking only to personnel moves.

I've already agreed with the point that records are the bottom line, and that at some point "excuses get tiresome." If we have a losing season whether Cam plays or not, Tepper might clean house, and no one could hardly argue the point. But at the same time, he may decide to use a scalpel as opposed to an axe, and though I'm sure you'd probably argue with that, I wouldn't.

If he wants to use a scalpel, then I actually can agree with that but I'd say this:

Keep the guy who's shown that he's capable of getting better results working with somebody else as opposed to the guy who's been mediocre with two different partners.

[top dawg]

Just now, MasterAwesome said:

It’s crazy how we simply substitute an injured quarterback for a healthy one and all of a sudden we look like a competent, promising, complete team. It’s almost like......roster management hasn’t been the issue.

I've been skeptical of Rivera's roster management for at least two years. The clinging onto vets for dear life when they don't necessarily deserve it has been my main issue with him. We have talent, we just have to use it properly (or in some cases, just use it).

[MasterAwesome]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

I've been skeptical of Rivera's roster management for at least two years. The clinging onto vets for dear life when they don't necessarily deserve it has been my main issue with him. We have talent, we just have to use it properly (or in some cases, just use it).

I meant roster management in regards to personnel (i.e. Hurney’s role), rather than actually utilizing the roster at his disposal (i.e. Rivera’s role). I think we certainly have a playoff-caliber roster in terms of talent...it’s just not being utilized to its maximum potential - most notably playing Williams at LT and an injured Cam at QB.

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If he wants to use a scalpel, then I actually can agree with that but I'd say this:

Keep the guy who's shown that he's capable of getting better results working with somebody else as opposed to the guy who's been mediocre with two different partners.

That's one way to look at it. 

I think that you should also consider whether someone is learning and improving, retrogressing or staying the same. 

Or you could just say "fug it," and roll with the axe. All I'm saying is that there are several ways to look at it and go about it. That's really all I've ever said.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, top dawg said:

That's one way to look at it. 

I think that you should also consider whether someone is learning and improving, retrogressing or staying the same. 

Or you could just say "fug it," and roll with the axe. All I'm saying is that there are several ways to look at it and go about it. That's really all I've ever said.

Kevin Colbert is a guy who's been in charge of personnel for twenty years and only had one losing season.

Marty Hurney has served as Panthers GM over fourteen years and only has three winning seasons.

Even if we don't end up having a shot of Colbert, we could still go with somebody who's spent significant time working under him in Omar Khan, Phil Kreidler or Brandon Hunt. Or for that matter, maybe use Colbert as a consultant and let him choose among the guys mentioned (or others).

Even outside of the Steelers, you've got guys like Lake Dawson, Ryan Cowden, Trent Kirchner, Scott Fitterer and others who have worked their way up actually doing personnel jobs and earned their shot at being in charge rather than having it handed to them by an owner as a reward for loyalty.

Give me some semblance of an argument why you take a guy like Marty Hurney, of whom a high compliment is saying that he "might be better than it used to be", over those options.

Why in the hell would you settle for Marty when you have a chance at someone eho actually qualified for the job the right way?

[Cpt slay a ho]

I’m pretty sure Tepper isn’t just looking at the win/loss as the be all/end all evaluation for hurney. 

If you’re being logical, coaching has far played a major role in our record than the gm.

if hurney goes it’s because there’s a better choice.

if you’re giving him credit for 2017, his track record isn’t bad consider this year is still a ? On what the result will be 

[Mr. Scot]

18 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I’m pretty sure Tepper isn’t just looking at the win/loss as the be all/end all evaluation for hurney. 

If you’re being logical, coaching has far played a major role in our record than the gm.

if hurney goes it’s because there’s a better choice.

if you’re giving him credit for 2017, his track record isn’t bad consider this year is still a ? On what the result will be 

You're saying that the guy who said the first, second and third thing that he cared about was winning should make his decisions based on something other than winning?