Jarius Wright was open... A lot

[raz]

6 hours ago, Peppers90 NC said:

You’re saying it’s time for him to retire then?

uh, wtf are you on about?

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Cracka McNasty said:

He signed Oher who played like a pro-bowler the year we went to the super bowl but he had to retire due to a horrible concussion the year after. That was an unfortunate circumstance but it certainly looked like we had found the solution at LT long term. 

People always seem to forget about that when they push the "Gettleman didn't care about the line" Narrative. We had 1 season of absolutely abysmal LT play in 2014 and people act like it was never addressed. We went out and got Oher in 2015, then 2016 Oher got injures so bad he had to retire so we had to swing Remmers to LT out of desperation because along with Oher, we lost 1st and 2nd string center, 1-3 string RG, and 1-4 string RT. Then we went out and got Kalil in 2017, and that was a horrible contract that I won't defend, but he was a marginal average talent at LT outside the beginning of the season. Then in 2018 he got hurt and we had to pick a dude up off the streets to play LT because our backup LT had to move back to RT because our starting RT got hurt for the year (Williams).

So be pissed for 2014 where we had to reset our cap situation to be able to sign Luke and Cam in 2015 and neglected to sign a long term solution, but injuries are the main contributing factor for poor tackle play post Jordan Gross and anyone who thinks otherwise is pushing a narrative. 

Oher was fine. I can't speak to the Pro Bowl comment. I know that before he came here, he was let go for a reason. Come on, man. Oher was a question mark at LT on the cheap. I'm not one to go through coulda-shoulda-wouldas but there were better options at LT, and that's been our O-line's biggest downfall throughout Cam's tenure. Injuries happen, we know, but sometimes you just have to invest in exclamation points, and LT is definitely where I want an exclamation point (at least a period).

[Ricky Spanish]

57 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Oher was fine. I can't speak to the Pro Bowl comment. I know that before he came here, he was let go for a reason. Come on, man. Oher was a question mark at LT on the cheap. I'm not one to go through coulda-shoulda-wouldas but there were better options at LT, and that's been our O-line's biggest downfall throughout Cam's tenure. Injuries happen, we know, but sometimes you just have to invest in exclamation points, and LT is definitely where I want an exclamation point (at least a period).

I've been over this whole thing many times before. There were no good LT's available in the drafts gettleman was our GM at our picks. MAYBE one or two throughout his entire tenure. All the ones worth a damn were scooped up before us and he still managed to grab Williams and Moton. 

Same goes for FA. Like you said, Oher was a FA for a reason, but so were all the others available in that time frame and none of them panned out. The ONLY available option, that I too wanted, was Andrew Whitworth in 2017 when we chose Kalil. I was not a fan of Kalil to begin with and felt Whitworth was a better option, but I really believe that that signing had more to do with Ryan than anything else. 

Either way, he was the only available LT that would have greatly improved our LT position in that entire time frame that we could have obtained due to our salary cap issues and draft position. 

[thefuzz]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Oher was fine. I can't speak to the Pro Bowl comment. I know that before he came here, he was let go for a reason. Come on, man. Oher was a question mark at LT on the cheap. I'm not one to go through coulda-shoulda-wouldas but there were better options at LT, and that's been our O-line's biggest downfall throughout Cam's tenure. Injuries happen, we know, but sometimes you just have to invest in exclamation points, and LT is definitely where I want an exclamation point (at least a period).

We signed Oher on a cheap prove it contract, he did, and we paid him.  Then he had a very unfortunate injury that made him quit playing football.

You are willfully not acknowledging the fact that DG tried to put a LT in place for this team.  He succeeded in Oher, then failed with Kalil.  But to say he didn't try, or didn't value the LT position is just being closed minded.

 

[MasterAwesome]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

So...no.

Quick Tip: For whatever you want to think of him, Sean Payton is a hell of a good coach on gameday.

You can argue against that because he coaches for the Saints, but it won't make it any less true.

Waiting for evidence of that. Make sure you post clips and time stamps...or you could use GIFs from the first half then post ones for the second half and provide your analysis of the before/after.

Quick Tip: wipe your mouth after you and Sean are done.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Like another poster stated we are just nitpicking about cam at this point, this was a mediocre game but the perception around here is dude played like jameis or baker.

sidenote I know we are not debating if dg invested in a Lt, cap excuse is played, we’re watching the saints and other teams manipulate the hell out of the cap each offseason. Although I’m in agreement the 1st round wasn’t yielding any cornerstone tackles lately, second round did field some good o linemen that we passed over for guys like ealy and funchess. Besides the obvious cmc and maybe KK dg failed to put any franchise guys around the team, you can argue turner but that’s very debatable. Would have rather gave up a first rounder to trade for a OT than give Kalil that absurd ass contract  

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Waiting for evidence of that. Make sure you post clips and time stamps...or you could use GIFs from the first half then post ones for the second half and provide your analysis of the before/after.

Quick Tip: wipe your mouth after you and Sean are done.

Pretty much what I expected.

The reality is that strategy and adjustments are things that Sean Payton does very well. That's an acknowledgement of fact, and if you asked pretty much any objective NFL analyst, they'd agree. Heck, if you ask most of the posters on this board, they'd agree too.

You can try to frame that acknowledgment as disloyalty if you want, but all it really does is make you look silly.

It's one thing to cheer for your team, quite another to be delusional.

[CPF4LIFE]

Yeah but Im pretty sure Wright doesn't run deep routes like that so it isnt gonna make critics happy unfortunately. 

Cam doesn't throw deep he gets dragged 

Cam misses a open receiver underneath he gets dragged......Lose lose to me.

 

[WOW!!]

I need the all 22's 

Because I don't see alot of ppl open on these highlights  or alot of deep routes..

 

[top dawg]

8 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Pretty easy to only see things you're way when ya don't accept reality. 

 

9 hours ago, Icege said:

2013 we went into the season $16M over the cap and it was made clear that talent was going to be brought in for the OL via the draft rather than free agency due to that situation. (src: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000126808/article/dave-gettleman-laughs-at-panthers-salarycap-woes). Our line consisted of Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Scott, and Bell. 

2014 we barely had just over $15M in cap space available, but had to figure out how to try and retain Greg Hardy (holy crap, somebody make sure Nails doesn't appear, I might have just summoned him on accident). We go draft Turner AND find Norwell as a UDFA (a huge step up from the prior year's two UDFA darlings, Bell & Chandler). Gross retires. We're left with Garry Williams to man the RT, but he breaks his ankle. OL is now Bell, Norwell, Kalil, Turner, Remmers when it could've been Gross, Norwell, Kalil, Turner, whoever.

2015, we had just under $15M in cap space going into the offseason, but then it was raised and we got some more money ("Dollar Store to Target"). This would be the year that we allegedly lost our OL. We went to the Super Bowl, partially thanks to some stability being brought to LT with Michael Oher. Oher-Norwell-Kalil-Turner-Remmers. We also draft Daryl Williams in the 3rd, setting us up for a future OL of Oher-Norwell-Kalil-Turner-Williams.

2016, everything was terrible. Oher injured. Just everything sucked. Nobody brought in to help outside of depth.

2017, we did a great thing and an awful thing. Great: Drafted Taylor Moton. Awful: Paid Matt Kalil.

The reality is that despite being crippled by the salary cap ($40M RBs BABY!!!), the team did invest in an OL. The primary source of that, the draft, has shown to be successful for the team.

We haven't even discussed the Cam Newton, Kawann Short, Luke Kuechly, and other extensions that had to be done under those constraints. LT was most definitely a priority when we risked bringing in Michael Oher, found success, and then took a risk on paying Matt Kalil which went in the complete opposite direction. Moton was drafted and got time at LT before Williams went down and he went to RT.

We can criticize some of those choices, but to make a blanket statement that the team did not try to provide Cam with protection then is just flat out wrong.

 

8 hours ago, thefuzz said:

No, no, no, this cannot be right.

 

People have very selective memories when it comes to the guy who cut Steve Smith.

 

6 hours ago, thefuzz said:

We signed Oher on a cheap prove it contract, he did, and we paid him.  Then he had a very unfortunate injury that made him quit playing football.

You are willfully not acknowledging the fact that DG tried to put a LT in place for this team.  He succeeded in Oher, then failed with Kalil.  But to say he didn't try, or didn't value the LT position is just being closed minded.

 

Whitworth, Penn, Reiff, Okung, Veldheer were all FAs at one time or another. Some were Band-Aids, and  some better than others for sure, but all were better than Kalil and probably Oher too when you compare their careers in their entirety.

[top dawg]

And for the record, I never said DG didn't try, but he made the decisions that he wanted, and the Panthers suffered the consequences in more ways than one. Moreover, somewhere on these servers, I said in so many words that I was willing to let Hardy walk if it meant getting a decent LT. I was never a keep Hardy at all costs person. 

And the 89 thing is lame, by the way. DG did his most damage after 89 was long gone. I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I was OK with DG letting 89 go, I just hated the manner in which he did it, and the record shows it. It is ironic that LT and WR were arguably our two biggest reasons for not winning it all.

[SJTG4]

Panthers fans are the only fans I know that think LESS is better for our star QB

[Catufb85]

As furious as I was in the stand as many times as Cam zero'd in on his first or second option or missing a few wide open throws, what I think made me more furious than anything was the COACHING.  You get a delay of game penalty after a timeout and commercial break.  the game management of this game should be up there in conversation with "how poorly Cam played" even though people are failing to realize that he had a better QBR and completion percentage than Goff, but we missed out on so many opportunities that people almost forgot we were playing the defending NFC champions and lost by 3 with a QB who hasn't played in 9 months and went through surgery and no preseason.   But the most embarrassing aspect of this game was the Coaching and the game management.

[Icege]

9 hours ago, top dawg said:

Whitworth, Penn, Reiff, Okung, Veldheer were all FAs at one time or another. Some were Band-Aids, and  some better than others for sure, but all were better than Kalil and probably Oher too when you compare their careers in their entirety.

Which again, re-emphasizes that last line from my quoted post:

Quote

We can criticize some of those choices, but to make a blanket statement that the team did not try to provide Cam with protection then is just flat out wrong.

Because remember, this all came about from you claiming the following:

Quote

The GM is responsible for the line. Cam had decent lines until Gettleman got here. At least Hurney is trying to invest in the line. After one game, I'm of the opinion that the line did a pretty good job---certainly enough to win!

...

I just don't accept that. Where there's the will, there's the way. There's a variety of different moves and scenarios we could have made to provide Cam an upgrade in protection during Gettleman's tenure. The GM is the one that ultimately sets the priorities, and LT was never a priority under Gettleman while he was here.

Which other posters and I have shown you is simply not true. It's a lazy, uninformed narrative like most of the other hot takes we see here (ex: Cam is done, Luke is done, CMC is a bust, Shaq is a bust, Bradberry is a bust, Gettleman was the worst GM we ever had, JR was a good dude, etc).