Jarius Wright was open... A lot

[AceBoogie]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

To clarify, you believe he created this topic strictly to stir up controversy and subsequent clicks that turn into ad revenue?

Are you aware of how that revenue is calculated and accumulated? It is miniscule, and when taking into consideration access to ad blockers (which are widespread and the result of the death of much, much larger forums than this one), that line of thinking comes across as paranoid at best, dillusional at worst. You've got a pretty good head on your shoulders from what I've seen, and I think that if you knew a little more detail about that you would be less inclined to believe it was a money making move.

Especially when there are many, many more ways to get much, much more money.

I understand the concept or traffic=dollars. That’s the case in any business. It’s not about one thread. It’s about keeping the fire going. Things were starting to die down and the reason why this board isn’t like the many others that typically have sporadic posts is because Igo knows how to consistently pump in content. Not all content is good content but all content is good content if you know what I mean. 

[OneBadCat]

2 minutes ago, mrknowitall said:

I don’t get these threads. We seem to nitpick Cam so often. If Cam carries the ball eight times in a game, we scream he runs too much. If he doesn’t rush at all, he needs to run more. If he forces the ball deep on third and two, every play doesn’t have to be THE play, take what the defense gives you. If he takes what the defense gives him, you gotta take some deep shots just to keep them honest. Now, it’s Jarius Wright was open a lot. 

OK? 

So was D.J. So was Christian. So was Curtis. So was Greg (a few times). Cam wasn’t forcing the ball into traffic yesterday. We’ve seen forcing. He did it plenty with KB, but that wasn’t the case Sunday. 

Jarius and D.J. will not get a similar amount of targets. Not only is D.J. on the field for more snaps (which I imagine we want of our 22 year old receiver who was drafted in round one to be the future), but he’s going to be the first read far more often than Jarius. Wright got 59 targets last season, which is the second most in his career. He’s going to get his.

I mean, I think we can all admit that Cam could have played better, and has played better in the past. 

But why does every perceived error in a singular game always devolve into questions about his skill/intelligence (ie. So he still can’t read the field)? Really? He read the field just fine. He and his receivers weren’t always on the same page? And he had a few overthrows, but let’s be honest about what happened. We lost because we made mistakes (and we gave up more than 130 rushing yards in the second half), the least of which was Cam FORCING the ball to D.J. or Christian or whoever.

There are plenty of things we can call out Cam about. He’s gotta take a step back or something before that “backward pass” to D.J. so it looks more like it’s going forward. He’s gotta hit those throws outside the numbers. But complaining that Wright got one target instead of the three he averaged per game last year is beneath us, I think. 

Or at least, I hope.

 

I agree it is tiring to see the "Cam isn't smart enough, isn't reading the field" arguments. Those arguments stem from assumptions based on Cam's personality that are totally ignorant. And its easy to say those things as a fan when most of them don't know what's going on anyway and who's actually open and what the play is designed for. 

When Jake Delhomme threw 5 picks against Arizona, was he not smart enough to read the field? Or maybe he just always had some tunnel vision and when he lost his zip on the ball he couldn't make the big plays anymore. 

Cam had a below average game the other day and I think that's fair to say. He does deserves some criticism. I think we can all agree he needs to not only return to the Cam that he was but eventually must improve and go beyond where he left off from mid season last year. I still think he can do it. But the overthrows and clock management need to be taken care of.

[AceBoogie]

4 minutes ago, mrknowitall said:

I don’t get these threads. We seem to nitpick Cam so often. If Cam carries the ball eight times in a game, we scream he runs too much. If he doesn’t rush at all, he needs to run more. If he forces the ball deep on third and two, every play doesn’t have to be THE play, take what the defense gives you. If he takes what the defense gives him, you gotta take some deep shots just to keep them honest. Now, it’s Jarius Wright was open a lot. 

OK? 

So was D.J. So was Christian. So was Curtis. So was Greg (a few times). Cam wasn’t forcing the ball into traffic yesterday. We’ve seen forcing. He did it plenty with KB, but that wasn’t the case Sunday. 

Jarius and D.J. will not get a similar amount of targets. Not only is D.J. on the field for more snaps (which I imagine we want of our 22 year old receiver who was drafted in round one to be the future), but he’s going to be the first read far more often than Jarius. Wright got 59 targets last season, which is the second most in his career. He’s going to get his.

I mean, I think we can all admit that Cam could have played better, and has played better in the past. 

But why does every perceived error in a singular game always devolve into questions about his skill/intelligence (ie. So he still can’t read the field)? Really? He read the field just fine. He and his receivers weren’t always on the same page? And he had a few overthrows, but let’s be honest about what happened. We lost because we made mistakes (and we gave up more than 130 rushing yards in the second half), the least of which was Cam FORCING the ball to D.J. or Christian or whoever.

There are plenty of things we can call out Cam about. He’s gotta take a step back or something before that “backward pass” to D.J. so it looks more like it’s going forward. He’s gotta hit those throws outside the numbers. But complaining that Wright got one target instead of the three he averaged per game last year is beneath us, I think. 

Or at least, I hope.

 

Another fair and rational post. But the truth is and nobody wants to admit it, people dislike Cam because he’s a young flamboyant black male in America in the heart of the Bible Belt. 

Conservative folks in the Carolina like their QBs quiet. They want them to perform well on Sundays and to be unseen the rest of the week. They want them to not dance or showboat. They want them to wear a traditional suit. Especially when he’s black. 

I’ve heard a lot of criticism of Cam and for me it’s hard for me to be rationally critical of him because I have to spend too much time defending him from the obvious racist. 

We all know Cam could have played better but so could of a lot of QBs who everyone here would say are better quarterbacks than Cam. 

But he damn sure isn’t the reason we lost that game. 

[AceBoogie]

2 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

I agree it is tiring to see the "Cam isn't smart enough, isn't reading the field" arguments. Those arguments stem from assumptions based on Cam's personality that are totally ignorant. And its easy to say those things as a fan when most of them don't know what's going on anyway and who's actually open and what the play is designed for. 

When Jake Delhomme threw 5 picks against Arizona, was he not smart enough to read the field? Or maybe he just always had some tunnel vision and when he lost his zip on the ball he couldn't make the big plays anymore. 

Cam had a below average game the other day and I think that's fair to say. He does deserves some criticism. I think we can all agree he needs to not only return to the Cam that he was but eventually must improve and go beyond where he left off from mid season last year. I still think he can do it. But the overthrows and clock management need to be taken care of.

He had what two overthrows in the game? How many did Goff have? A lot more that Cam. 

Who's the clock management on? When Cam is allowed to just go the team moves the ball down the field with ease. 

[top dawg]

6 minutes ago, Icege said:

Difficult to invest when the previous regime completely wrecked the salary cap for multiple future seasons. :/

Though I would argue that every year with the exception of the dumpster fire that was 2016, at LEAST a 4th rounder was invested in every draft while those books were getting cleaned up. Edmund Kugbila (2013, 4th), Trai Turner (2014, 3rd), Daryl Williams (2015, 4th), and Taylor Moton (2017, 2nd). We had Kalil throughout that tenure as well occupying the center position.

Aside from Kugbila, that's 3 of our 5 current starters that were drafted. Investments.

 I just don't accept that. Where there's the will, there's the way. There's a variety of different moves and scenarios we could have made to provide Cam an upgrade in protection during Gettleman's tenure. The GM is the one that ultimately sets the priorities, and LT was never a priority under Gettleman while he was here.

[Mr. Scot]

40 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

So when the Saints come back from 14-3 at halftime to score 27 points in the second half, it’s cause of genius adjustments...but when we come back from 13-3 at halftime to score 24 points in the second half, it’s cause of what, exactly...? Let me guess, just the players overcoming pitiful coaching as always.

Did you actually notice any major adjustments by us in the second half? Feel free to talk about them if you did.

We actually had a lot of things bounce our way in the second half, not the least of which being that Goff didn't play particularly well. And Greg Zeuerlein uncharacteristically missed a field goal. Unfortunately, Todd Gurley did play well, and hurtus a lot.

We cut down on our own mistakes, but still had a few that were ill-timed (Newton throwing a gift interception, Bradberry not catching one in return, for example). It's actually kind of maddening just how many opportunities we had to win, but it was ultimately too little, too late.

Still, if you want to pursue a narrative where Ron Rivera is a genius at second-half adjustments, feel free to state your case. I'm sure it'll be entertaining.

[beastson]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

 I just don't accept that. Where there's the will, there's the way. There's a variety of different moves and scenarios we could have made to provide Cam an upgrade in protection during Gettleman's tenure. The GM is the one that ultimately sets the priorities, and LT was never a priority under Gettleman while he was here.

To be fair to Gettleman, Oher did have concussion problems. He did sign garbage ass Kalil

[top dawg]

19 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

There’s a reason why Cam got the ball out quickly. There’s a reason we don’t throw deep. It’s too hide how bad the offensive line is. Every time Cam tried to throw deep the pocket collapsed. Except for the one overthrow that he rushed. Can’t blame someone for missing a throw when you only get one opportunity at it in a game. Goff routinely missed throws but his line gave him enough time to try try again. The difference is often opportunity. If Cam threw it deep on another play for a score we wouldn’t be talking about the one miss. 

The film is out there. Someone show me a clean pocket with a receiver that’s not a 4th read wide open deep down the field. I’ll wait.

We'll wait for the advanced stats. 

On average, Brady gets the ball out very fast (and maybe faster than anyone). There are (and have been) other successful QBs that routinely get the ball away quickly too. That's just a part of the game. If you have the ball over three---definitely four seconds, you're likely to run into issues.

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, top dawg said:

 The GM is the one that ultimately sets the priorities, and LT was never a priority under Gettleman while he was here.

Thats not actually true.

It's the head coach that decides what kind of system to run and what kind of players he wants to run it with. Hence, why we went after players that fit a 3-4 defense rather than a 4-3 this past offseason.

Likewise, do you think both Marty Hurney and Dave Gettleman share a disdain for coverage safeties? Or is it that other guy who was here under both of them?

Every offseason, GM's and coaches sit down together to discuss the roster. The coach says "I need this". The GM says "I'll get you this". Specific player names may be discussed or they may not. It just depends.

But in all cases, the guy who ultimately decides the roster and the depth chart is the guy who's coaching it. The GM's job is to get him what he asks for. He may do a good job of it or he may not, but that's the job he's doing.

[AceBoogie]

Just now, top dawg said:

We'll wait for the advanced stats. 

On average, Brady gets the ball out very fast (and maybe faster than anyone). There are (and have been) other successful QBs that routinely get the ball away quickly too. That's just a part of the game. If you have the ball over three---definitely four seconds, you're likely to run into issues.

Why do you need advanced stats. Go back and watch the game. 

[top dawg]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Thats not actually true.

It's the head coach that decides what kind of system to run and what kind of players he wants to run it with. Hence, why we went after players that fit a 3-4 defense rather than a 4-3 this past offseason.

Likewise, do you think both Marty Hurney and Dave Gettleman share a disdain for coverage safeties? Or is it that other guy who was here under both of them?

Every offseason, GM's and coaches sit down together to discuss the roster. The coach says "I need this". The GM says "I'll get you this". Specific player names may be discussed or they may not. It just depends.

But in all cases, the guy who ultimately decides the roster and the depth chart is the guy who's coaching it. The GM's job is to get him what he asks for. He may do a good job of it or he may not, but that's the job he's doing.

If you have a sucky player as a GM, you're not going to let the coach or anyone else tell you not to replace them...unless you're a fool. 

[top dawg]

Good and great lineman are coveted regardless. 

[thefuzz]

20 minutes ago, top dawg said:

 I just don't accept that. Where there's the will, there's the way. There's a variety of different moves and scenarios we could have made to provide Cam an upgrade in protection during Gettleman's tenure. The GM is the one that ultimately sets the priorities, and LT was never a priority under Gettleman while he was here.

I just don't accept that the salary cap is real, that we had Gross then Oher who had to retire due to concussions, that Moton, Turner, Williams, and Norwell were brought in by DG, and Hurney didn't pick a single offensive lineman last year in the draft.

 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

If you have a sucky player as a GM, you're not going to let the coach or anyone else tell you not to replace them...unless you're a fool. 

Disagreements happen. The GM has the authority, but most defer to the coach on player decisions once the roster's been set for the season. Bene Benwikere was a prime example. His release was acknowledged as a coach's decision.

We've seen discussions from Hurney and Rivera on the topic before. Those statements echo what others say, basically that when the season starts, the GM fades into the background and becomes a "maintenance" guy.

The head coach is the guy at center stage right now, and that's not unique to us.