Allen should not be QB2

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, Varking said:

We are two drafts away from Justin Fields/Trevor Lawrence. Just pray Cam makes it healthy through then. 

To be high enough in the order to get one of the top guys would require a seriously bad season the year before though.

[PantherPhann89]

37 minutes ago, Varking said:

Kyle Allen -

4/6 for 41 yards 0 TDs drives against the Steelers and one field goal drive that got blocked resulting in 0 points. 

7/11 for 76 yards and 0 TD drives against the Bears but he lead two drives to field goals. 

4/11 for 32 yards and 0 TD drives against the Bills and no field goal drives. 

3/6 for 16 yards and 0 TD drives against the Patriots and no field goal drives.

18 of 34 for a completion % of 52.94%. 

165 Passing Yards

0 Passing Touchdowns

29 rushing yards on 4 carries.

3 field goal drives resulting in 6 points. 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Will Grier - 

4/8 for 44 and 2 rushes for 5 yards vs pats

10/19 for 74 yards and no rushes vs bills

9 of 16 for 77 and a td and 1 carry for 20 yards vs bears

11/18 for 189 and a td and 1 carry for 5 yards vs the Steelers

34/61 passing for 55.73% completion %.

384 yards

4 rushes for 30

29 points from drives of TDs or field goals.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Taylor Heinicke

7/10 for 89 yards and 2 TDs and 1 carry for 5 yards vs the Steelers resulting in 15 points.

4/9 for 35 yards and 0 TDs and 2 carries for 10 yards vs the Bears resulting in 7 points on a scoring drive.

8/12 for 78 yards and 1 TD and 1 carry for 4 yards vs the Bills. Also lead a two point conversion for 8 points scored.

DNP vs the Patriots

19/31 passing for 61.29% completion %.

202 passing yards

4 carries for 19 yards

30 points from drives of TDs or Field Goals

 

My conclusion is that if the Panthers lose Cam, we are done for the year. But, if we lose Cam it is far more exciting to watch Heinicke and Grier play than Allen. Allen got to run with our best preseason squad for basically four games and put up a combined 6 points while he was in the games. One field goal got blocked but even then you could say he should have put up 10 points. Grier and Heini both completed a higher percent of their passes, for more yards, they were basically a wash rushing the ball, but the one consistent of the preason was that Allen did nothing to score. If I had to pick a depth chart today knowing that Grier is absolutely going to be the #3 based on where we drafted him my chart is Cam > Heinicke > Grier > Allen. 

If its actually supposed to be a competition and the objective of the offense is to put points up on the board then Allen was by far the worst at it of all three. Bring on the hate but Taylor should be the 2 going into the season. 

 

I agree, Heinicke should be our #2 from our current choices.

[philit99]

While I somewhat agree with the OP, Kyle Allen has faced far tougher first string defenses so it is a moot point.

[joeyxfresco]

I don’t think anyone has a problem with Grier personally. But picking him at #100 was stupid. With so many holes to fill we didn’t have the luxury of drafting a hometown QB to pump out feel good stories. If you were to waste a pick like that you would also want said player to perform better in preseason than everyone selected after him. Grier was the worst ranked rookie QB this preseason and he was playing third string defenses

[Varking]

1 minute ago, joeyxfresco said:

I don’t think anyone has a problem with Grier personally. But picking him at #100 was stupid. With so many holes to fill we didn’t have the luxury of drafting a hometown QB to pump out feel good stories. If you were to waste a pick like that you would also want said player to perform better in preseason than everyone selected after him. Grier was the worst ranked rookie QB this preseason and he was playing third string defenses

While playing with guys who won't be on our third string. 

[joeyxfresco]

Just now, Varking said:

While playing with guys who won't be on our third string. 

And throwing interceptions to guys who won’t be on an active roster on Sunday because they can’t read pro offenses 

[Bronn]

For whatever reasons, the Panthers have always seemingly leaned more towards Allen than Heinicke.

I've seen flashes from both, but you aren't going to get a real look in the preseason, behind those lines, against that competition.

Allen's limited time last night just solidifies his job as #2 is safe.

That said, I hope we don't lose Heinicke's number.

[Varking]

Just now, joeyxfresco said:

And throwing interceptions to guys who won’t be on an active roster on Sunday because they can’t read pro offenses 

Like last night when the WR clearly ran the wrong route? It happens. The difference is he puts up points still. You literally can't deny that Allen had the best weapons around him, period, of all our QBs this preseason. He lead us to scoring just 6 points. 6. points. This isn't even about Grier. You completely missed the point. We know Grier isn't getting cut and he is going to be our #3. Its about who will be the number 2. And that should not be Allen. 

[joeyxfresco]

Just now, Varking said:

Like last night when the WR clearly ran the wrong route? It happens. The difference is he puts up points still. You literally can't deny that Allen had the best weapons around him, period, of all our QBs this preseason. He lead us to scoring just 6 points. 6. points. This isn't even about Grier. You completely missed the point. We know Grier isn't getting cut and he is going to be our #3. Its about who will be the number 2. And that should not be Allen. 

I wasn’t talking about #2 I was talking about the frustration on this board with Grier. Nobody behind Cam should be a starter in the case Cam goes down again. Also, you can’t talk about weapons and ignore all blown coverages when facing other team’s third stringers and Grier’s tendency to stare down receivers. If Grier played with the weapons Allen had against the defenses Allen faced this board would be on fire 

[Shotgun]

They all look bad but I doubt Heinicke could make it through a whole game without being injured. I'd go with Allen.

[Mr. Scot]

Side Note: This reminds me of something I've seen both John Fox and Ron Rivera do in preseason that I absolutely hate.

After a quarterback has had a lousy preseason performance, they throw him out there for like one series of easy work, use that to justify saying, "See he's fine" and then pull him before anything can go wrong.

Rivera did that in Preseason Four of Newton's rookie season after Newton looked lousy in week three. The good news then though was that Newton did look goof when he started Week 1, so while annoying, nothing major.

The more egregious offense was by John Fox. After claiming "open competition" prior to the 2003 season, Fox held Rodney Peete out of the preseason except for one series. He use that single series as an excuse to say see "Rodney's perfectly fine to start".

Good grief what a dumbass move that was 

[Tbe]

Ron is thinking about it from the perspective of “if Cam goes down for a play or two OR a game or two” who is best able to get a win to keep us in the playoff hunt. Allen is the obvious choice there.

However, if Cam goes out for the season, you play Will Grier every game. Allen will never be a starter. Get Will the reps and decide if he’s the guy for the future.

[Varking]

1 minute ago, joeyxfresco said:

I wasn’t talking about #2 I was talking about the frustration on this board with Grier. Nobody behind Cam should be a starter in the case Cam goes down again. Also, you can’t talk about weapons and ignore all blown coverages when facing other team’s third stringers and Grier’s tendency to stare down receivers. If Grier played with the weapons Allen had against the defenses Allen faced this board would be on fire 

This thread wasn't about the boards frustration with Grier. I am not high on him right now. This is about Allen doing absolutely nothing all preseason with guys like DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel and Ian Thomas running routes for him. 6 points, all field goals for the entire preseason. 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Bronn said:

For whatever reasons, the Panthers have always seemingly leaned more towards Allen than Heinicke.

That might be valid this preseason, but definitely not "always".

Last season, Allen wasn't even a consideration for most of the year. He bounced on and off the practice squad.

Heinicke stuck on the roster because he was familiar with Norv Turner's system - and arguably with Turner himself - even though a lot of us thought Garrett Gilbert actually outperformed him in preseason games. It wasn't until he got into some actual regular-season action and looked terrible that he started to fall out of favor.