We should not be kicking extra points.

[mbarbour21]

I’m sure if people did more 2 point conversations that percentage would drop. It’s something that isn’t done near as often as an extra point. 

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, TN05 said:

Except it probably doesn’t. If it was obviously the right move, everyone would do it. But this strategy has not caught on at any level of football - even college and high school, where kickers miss more extra points. There’s a reason for that. Coaches aren’t idiots.

Football is more than math. If a team knows you are only going to go for two every time then they can plan for it. There are a limited number of plays you can run from there. And what happens if you miss? Statistically it’s more likely you miss two than that you make two, and so on. If you miss three and your opponent scores three touchdowns and makes all three extra points, you’re down a field goal instead of being tied.

Coaches don’t like to leave points wasted, and making a mistake can cost you. That’s what happened in Super Bowl 38: we went aggressive early and it cost us. We missed 2 two-point conversions (that’s two points gone) and the Patriots made one (because we missed ours). That’s a difference in three points, or the outcome of the game. If we don’t attempt those two-point conversions, Vinatieri is likely kicking for overtime, not a win. That’s huge.

In football you have to consider the consequences of the actions. You have to look ahead 20 plays and think what happens if you fail. That’s why coaches don’t take risks off of pure math, which cannot account for that.

Even though my points were focused on Gano and the  Panthers and you want to reference the league without much support, Are you suggesting that we should go with the option that causes us to score less?  Teams are already starting to go for 2 more often--why is that?

Since you believe in your insights more than data, argue against this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/more-nfl-teams-are-going-for-two-just-as-they-should-be/

 

[MHS831]

18 minutes ago, Icege said:

Thank you for two quality topics in one week. This place has needed it <3

Nice of you, Ice.  I am just starting to get fired up.  Tired of these posts about Antonio Brown's helmet or where I can stream a game in Greenland.

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

Coaching staffs (especially ours) would rather blame execution (missing an PAT) than a "dumb" coaching decision.

How many times have you heard Ron talk about players not executing vs. "my staff didn't put these guys in a position to win, and we made some pretty bad calls throughout the game and the week leading up to it"?

You know what really makes a coach look good? Not losing...so you’d think Rivera would take the ball out of Gano’s hands (or feet) since he apparently single-handedly loses us 7 games a season with his XPs according to the Huddle. Ron must really be dumb AF!! How come he ain’t woke like the other 31 coaches who don’t attempt 2-point conversions after every single touchdown?

I’d try not to get triggered by coachspeak too much if I were you...the only impact it has is on fans like you who hang on his every word at the podium. Unless you really think Tepper is watching his pressers like “Well golly gee, I really thought there were some questionable coaching decisions but there you have it! It was all on execution!”.

[MHS831]

9 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

You know what really makes a coach look good? Not losing...so you’d think Rivera would take the ball out of Gano’s hands (or feet) since he apparently single-handedly loses us 7 games a season with his XPs according to the Huddle. Ron must really be dumb AF!! How come he ain’t woke like the other 31 coaches who don’t attempt 2-point conversions after every single touchdown?

I’d try not to get triggered by coachspeak too much if I were you...the only impact it has is on fans like you who hang on his every word at the podium. Unless you really think Tepper is watching his pressers like “Well golly gee, I really thought there were some questionable coaching decisions but there you have it! It was all on execution!”.

The last time I checked, scoring more points wins more games.  If going for 2 means more points with Gano than allowing him to kick, you go for 2.  Not sure how anyone can argue against that concept.  The reasons a coach kicks is speculative, but that was never the main point--it was a reaction to some crackhead who felt his football common sense could overpower the rather obvious laws of simplistic math.

 

 

[thefuzz]

13 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

You know what really makes a coach look good? Not losing...so you’d think Rivera would take the ball out of Gano’s hands (or feet) since he apparently single-handedly loses us 7 games a season with his XPs according to the Huddle. Ron must really be dumb AF!! How come he ain’t woke like the other 31 coaches who don’t attempt 2-point conversions after every single touchdown?

I’d try not to get triggered by coachspeak too much if I were you...the only impact it has is on fans like you who hang on his every word at the podium. Unless you really think Tepper is watching his pressers like “Well golly gee, I really thought there were some questionable coaching decisions but there you have it! It was all on execution!”.

I'm not advocating for Ron to attempt more 2 pt. conversions, never said I was.  I'm just saying that we employ a very risk averse head coach, and it's laughable that anyone would think that Ron would break the mold like this and start going for 2 every time.

[MechaZain]

Not sure what's worse: a kicker you can't rely on to make an extra point or a defensive coordinator you can't trust to call plays.

[Jase]

We’re also worse than average on 2-pt tries. We were 40% last year and 33% the year before.

[TN05]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Even though my points were focused on Gano and the  Panthers and you want to reference the league without much support, Are you suggesting that we should go with the option that causes us to score less?  Teams are already starting to go for 2 more often--why is that?

Since you believe in your insights more than data, argue against this:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/more-nfl-teams-are-going-for-two-just-as-they-should-be/

Again, you are injecting a mathematical formula into football which is more than just numbers.

It is more likely we miss two than make two.

It is more likely we miss three than make three.

It is more likely we miss four than make four.

And so on. There is a reason coaches do not do this. They are not stupid. 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, TN05 said:

Again, you are injecting a mathematical formula into football which is more than just numbers.

It is more likely we miss two than make two.

It is more likely we miss three than make three.

It is more likely we miss four than make four.

And so on. There is a reason coaches do not do this. They are not stupid. 

You missed the point of the thread from the outset, so OK--even though I provided data to show we--AT CAROLINA--are scoring less by kicking than if we went for 2-I provided articles that showed coaches are going for 2 much more often--are they dumb?

[MHS831]

15 minutes ago, Jase said:

We’re also worse than average on 2-pt tries. We were 40% last year and 33% the year before.

Oh no! We suck again!

Seriously? that is terrible and inexcusable.  With Cam Newton at QB?  We should be better at OL (Right side) and RB now, however. 

[TN05]

10 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You missed the point of the thread from the outset, so OK--even though I provided data to show we--AT CAROLINA--are scoring less by kicking than if we went for 2-I provided articles that showed coaches are going for 2 much more often--are they dumb?

No coach is going for two every time because that is dumb and everyone knows it. It does not work. The math is not actually reflected in game results. Football is not math.

[PurityControl]

What are the % going for 2pt from a traditional formation VS lining up to kick and faking it.

You get a rep for going for 2pt all the time, defenses are going to be on high alert, I would think your chances of success will start to drop dramatically after that. 

I agree too many variables to get  accurate results

[Carolina Cajun]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Oh no! We suck again!

Seriously? that is terrible and inexcusable.  With Cam Newton at QB?  We should be better at OL (Right side) and RB now, however. 

In the coaches defense, cam newton completely busted on a game winning 2 pointer in Detroit last year.