Roster cuts feature some tough decisions

[SetfreexX]

Obada deserves to be on the team, he's not a 3-4 fit, but we're also not gonna be in base the majority of the time either -- NFL teams rough avg run Nickel defense 60+% of the time. 

He'll be a nice rotational piece on the edge, and has the position flexibility to play inside and out in a 4 DL set. Cox Jr. to me is th eodd man out, he's less versatile, and hasn't shown as much as Obada over the last two seasons. 

Butler makes the team unless we pull some kind of last minute trade, aside from Poe he's the only other DL we have with his kind of size. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

Wisdom says we'll move on from. Butler and CAP. 

Rivera and Hurney do not equal wisdom. 

[BrianS]

Offense (25)

• QB:  CN1, Allen, Grier
• FB:  Armah
• RB:  CMC, Scarlett, CAP (I don't like CAP, but I think he's the pick)
• TE:  Olsen, Thomas, Manhertz
• OL:  Paradis, Turner, Larsen, Van Roten, Williams, Moton, Little, Daley, Hearn
• WR:  Moore, Samuel, Wright, Hogan, Smith, Godwin

Defense (24)

• DL:  McCoy, Poe, Short, Love, Butler, Obada
• ILB:  Luke, Shaq, Carter, Smith
• OLB:  Irvin, Addison, Burns, Haynes, Miller
• CB:  Bradberry, Jackson, Elliot, Seymour
• S:  Reid, Boston, Jones
• DB:  Cockrell, Gaulden

Specialists (4)

• K:  Slye, Gano
• P:  Palardy
• LS:  Jansen

This is the initial 53.  I think we immediately IR Gano, and look to fill that slot with ILB depth as other teams cut down.

For our PS, I think:

Holyfield, Greene, A Williams, Ballard, Luke, Levrone, Vander Laan

The rest of our PS I think comes from picking over cuts by other teams.

[Davidson Deac II]

2 hours ago, Bronn said:

How many snaps did he get last game on offense?

Cap has played well in limited snaps.  IMO, he didn't get many snaps for one of two reasons.  The staff knows they are going to keep him, so there is no point in having him play many snaps.  Or the staffs knows they are going to cut him, so there is no point in having him play many snaps.  They play the ones they want to get a good look at and its likely the former reason.

 

Besides, as we have seen, we don't play the backup running backs anyway, except on special teams.  Even when we have a good one (CJ Anderson).  So we really have no idea how any of these guys would perform as a primary back.  That is true with Payne, Scarlett, Holyfield, or Bonnafon.  

[shaqattaq]

2 hours ago, GoPanthers123 said:

Gaulden is better than Jones.  Bonnafon is better than CAP.  Last year we had one of the oldest rosters so the plan was to get younger right ?  

Agree. Bonnafon has progressed nicely this preseason, and has been getting plenty of snaps on O and ST.  I also think Gaulden has actually looked decent (certainly not starter material yet) so far, and has a lot more potential than Jones.

I also think that we keep Godwin and run with 6 WR. I think he could easily get poached from PS, his PR abilities likely caught a lot of attention, and he appears to have the makings of a decent WR. His routes looked good so far.

[Khyber53]

I think we will lose Butler, CAP and Cox all for the same reason: too much time invested, too little return. They've reached their ceilings here.

I also see us not taking Holyfield, but trying to stash him on the PS. Godwin will make the team as a returner (if he is catching punts tonight, it is almost guaranteed according to John Madden's old time wisdom). I think we will see either Smith or Hogan let go.

And at QB, I think we'll let Allen ride off into the sunset and stick with Heinicke. Grier isn't going anywhere, but expect him to be parked on the bench as 3rd QB for a while. Allen will probably get one more chance to make some kind of magic happen tonight versus the Steelers, but barring that we'll go with the guy we know.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

I dont see the advantage in cutting Butler.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

11 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Me either. When you move to 3-4 you kind of increase the number of large guys you need inside. We can’t have Love be the only big backup. It just doesn’t work. If a starter gets dinged are you going to rotate Cox and Obada in  at NT and 3-4DE?

As much as we seem to hate the guy for being a first rounder, get over it we know he’s a disappointment, you can’t lose his size in case of injury.

Pretty much this.

Combined with, per spotrac, it doesn't look like we save any money cutting him.  Don't get me wrong.  After this year I am confident he is gone.  But I don't see a better option available to us (taking price into consideration also).

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, GoPanthers123 said:

Gaulden is better than Jones.  Bonnafon is better than CAP.  Last year we had one of the oldest rosters so the plan was to get younger right ?  

That is a good point.  CAP at 29 may never get a jersey on  game days.  Do you let a 23-year old go elsewhere while "developing" a declining RB  that was not good enough to begin with?

Age is an important consideration.

[MHS831]

34 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Cap has played well in limited snaps.  IMO, he didn't get many snaps for one of two reasons.  The staff knows they are going to keep him, so there is no point in having him play many snaps.  Or the staffs knows they are going to cut him, so there is no point in having him play many snaps.  They play the ones they want to get a good look at and its likely the former reason.

 

Besides, as we have seen, we don't play the backup running backs anyway, except on special teams.  Even when we have a good one (CJ Anderson).  So we really have no idea how any of these guys would perform as a primary back.  That is true with Payne, Scarlett, Holyfield, or Bonnafon.  

This is a good post.  CAP has averaged 4.2 yards per snap and is a pretty good blocker.  The options you provide are interesting.  Was the Bonnafon, Holyfield, Scarlett preseason for 1 spot, or 2?

[Icege]

QB: Newton, Allen, Grier (3)
In a perfect world, the selection of Will Grier would have allowed the Panthers to roll into the season with just 2 QBs, but with Grier's erratic play and Cam's recent injury it is all but certain that the team is going to march into the season with 3 QBs on the roster. Heinicke is the odd man out on this one.

RB: McCaffrey, Armah, Artis-Payne, Scarlett (4)
There is potential here that the 53rd spot could go to either Holyfield or Bonnafon, but I think that the Panthers feel good with this group. Armahgeddon and CMC are who they are, and CAP + Scarlett have looked pretty good in preseason. Both show the versatility to catch passes out of the backfield, run between the tackles, run off tackle, and be willing participants in pass protection.

WR: Moore, Samuel, Wright, Smith, Hogan, Godwin (6)
I haven't been this excited about a Panthers WR group in a long, long, long time. We've got our 2 young starters, a rookie returner that provides quality depth, and 3 vets all fulfilling different roles (slot, burner, ST contributor). I know that a lot of folks are soured on Smith and assume that Wright/Hogan can step into that veteran leader type of role, but not everyone can fill that just because of their age. Torrey has clearly done a solid job mentoring DJ & Curtis while taking a paycut. He stays.

TE: Olsen, Thomas, Manhertz (3)
Part of me wonder if the team is considering carrying 4 TEs here, but I think they feel confident marching Olsen back out there for one more season. Manhertz, aside from the horrible sack that he gave up, has looked decent otherwise both catching and blocking. Thomas is the heir apparent and still developing, but provides quality depth.

OL: Williams, Van Roten, Paradis, Turner, Moton, Little, Daley, Larsen, Hearn (9)
If any position group was likely to be bolstered through a post-cuts trade/signing, it is the OL. As nervous as the team is about Cam's health, they're also likely concerned by the stability of DWill's knee(s). Daley has shown promise on both sides of the line and played OT in college. He's looked better with each game after his and Little's horrendous first outting (who has also looked increasingly better, albeit sloppy). 

ST: Jansen, Palardy, Slye (3)
Slye has looked great, but we don't save money cutting Gano in favor of him. We might be able to dangle Slye as trade bait, but most likely teams will wait to steal him from our PS. However, the latest development revolving Gano's health has turned into rumours of a potential IR (or IR-R) move where the Panthers roll into the season with Slye. He's looked the part, and with teams desperate for consistency at the kicker position, this could be a reverse of what Butker/Gano could've been.

DL: Short, Poe, McCoy, Love, Obada (5)
We know what we have here: Pro Bowlers in Short, McCoy, and Poe. One of the best veteran rotational DTs in the game in Kyle Love (don't @ me, you know that I'm right <3). The big decision here is Butler and Obada, and when you look at the two I think that Obada makes it clear as day. Butler is asked to do dirty work, but still doesn't pop on the stat sheet nor on film. Obada, on the other hand, clearly affects the play when he is in. His versatility to line up anywhere on the line I think keeps him in over Butler, as Kyle Love can man the back-up NT position.

EDGE: Addison, Irvin, Burns, Haynes, Miller, Cox Jr (6)
Extremely excited about this group. We have two solid vets in Addison + Irvin for the younger guys to develop behind. Haynes and Burns have been exciting in preseason, and Miller has shown improvement with each preseason game. Cox Jr might seem strange given his recent legal issues and the fact that a 6th EDGE guy is not going to help as much as another position with depth needs might, but Cox Jr makes the team for the same reason that Obada replaces Butler: versatility and effort. The team has shown that they like Cox Jr and have groomed him to replace Wes Horton, who did a great job as a UDFA for this team for years. Cox Jr can play 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DT, or either DE. I think that the team shows that this is a new regime with a focus on production and development that doesn't give up on guys for minor transgressions.

LB: Kuechly, Thompson, Carter Jr, Smith, Norris (5)
We know what we have in Kuechly, and the late round LBs are being groomed well. Norris is a ST contributor and Shaq is set to have a breakout year. 

DB: Bradberry, Jackson, Reid, Boston, Cockrell, Gaulden, Jones, Elliot, Elder (9)
I have not been impressed with Elliot so far, but he's apparently looked good in practice. Seymour's health is what keeps him out of the mix here. I think that the team tries to stash Cole Luke away on PS for one more season as we already have Cockrell & Gaulden to fill the CB/S role. Elder I think gets in due to being a slot corner specifically on the chance that Elliot disappoints in regular season.

PS
RB Holyfield - Has looked solid as a sledgehammer, but could use more time to develop.
RB Bonnafon - Looking better and better while also fulfilling that versatile skill player position that the team currently covets. I think we stash him for one more season to replace CAP.
WR Levrone - Has developed some rapport with the back-up QBs.
TE Hemingway - Has been getting a lot of snaps lately.
DL Hamilton - Has popped constantly in game with his effort and pursuit.
LB Williams - Had himself a good 3rd preseason game and played his way into consideration to supplant Norris as the ST LB.
LB Kunaszyk - Has that mean streak that defensive coaches like and is willing to mix it up.
DB Luke - So. Close. So, so, so close. If not for the presence of Cockrell AND Gaulden, Luke makes the team. I can see him being stashed though should Cockrell's leg not hold up or Gaulden continues to put himself in the doghouse.
DB Blanding - I liked Blanding coming out, but he hasn't seem to have taken to the pros as well as I had thought he would. Perhaps being with a team that favors S/CB hybrids like the Panthers is where he needs to develop.
?? ????? - Pick up from another team, most likely OL

[LinvilleGorge]

This is the time of year when I do not pity NFL GMs. Imagine being a manager who had to fire nearly half of his employees on an annual basis. If you've ever had to fire people and you have any ounce of humanity in your heart, it sucks. Even if you don't necessarily like them and they deserve it. It still sucks.

[Bronn]

Butler is addition by subtraction.

Short and McCoy can both fill in at 3-4 DT if the need arises with Poe and Love getting breaks. However, I believe we plan on reverting back to 4-3 Base when Poe and Love are both off the field at the same time.

I could be wrong, but Butler isn't/hasn't been showing much at all IMHO. For a while. Best to cut our losses now and let a new guy get into the groove of being in whatever spot Butler would have taken.

Chances are, even if we keep Butler, he'd be inactive on game day unless Poe or Love couldn't go.

[MHS831]

4 hours ago, bababoey said:

Not to harp on one thing but when people say after 29 or 30 or whatever age, RB start to decline is kind of not right.  It's all about the wear and tear on their body at that age.  CAP did not start playing college football until he was 21 or 22 and did not get into the NFL until he was 25.  He does not have the same kind of wear on his body as a normal 29 year old back.  Fred Jackson averaged 4.3 ypc and had 900 yards rushing when he was 32 for an awful Buffalo team. He did not start playing in the NFL until he was 26.  So age is not as big as the wear he has on his body and CAP has very little.  I could easily see him playing another 3 years.

It is right, but there are exceptions.  Your points are  valid, but we never know how much damage / wear and tear etc. he has.  So much depends on his willingness to work on flexibility, stretching, icing, etc.  You know?  We never really know what a backup's RB "age" is, but your points in this case are valid.  Still, if he is not playing, why not develop a 23-year old?  I think we are going to keep CAP, btw.  RB has another year on the PS...