If you are David Tepper and Ron Rivera ends the season.....

[SetfreexX]

All these votes to move -- who are you bringing in?

Who out there is available...

 

[thefuzz]

3 hours ago, KaseKlosed said:

A franchise with a history of never having a coach get us back to back winning seasons some of you all have crazy expectations and eagerness to fire panthers most winningest coach in history. You ignore the injuries you ignore the dave gettleman blunders and cap hits Ron had to watch and endure. I would advise to have someone to have on a watch list with a higher success rate to replace. Also Tepper likes Tomlin and if he's out in Pittsburgh expect Tomlin to get a crack here if Ron is out. I believe Ron knew what team he had last year and it was a damn good one. We were looking like a new elite team last year. Ron will get us 10 wins and keep his job. My prediction. hardest division in football. If we were in AFC East we would be neck and neck with the pats and probably make playoffs every year too. Lol 

Fox is still higher on the win list.

Nobody ignores injuries.

Ron's largest cap issues were carried over from the Hurney years.

Tepper does not like Tomlin, and was part of the Steelers group that wanted to move on from him.

We aren't in the AFC E, and we haven't had a winning record vs. the division since 2015.

[PanthersFanNY]

10-6 I think he stays, though I'd want him canned (and have for two years).

 

Also, sick of seeing people say "well if you fire him who are you bringing in?" No poo that the replacement could flame out, but that's never an excuse to continue with mediocrity. Every team that's ever fired a coach went into it knowing that the next coach could possibly be worse. They still do it because this is a win now league and in case you aren't counting Ron has had 3 winning seasons in 8 years.

[thefuzz]

Just now, PanthersFanNY said:

10-6 I think he stays, though I'd want him canned (and have for two years).

 

Also, sick of seeing people say "well if you fire him who are you bringing in?" No poo that the replacement could flame out, but that's never an excuse to continue with mediocrity. Every team that's ever fired a coach went into it knowing that the next coach could possibly be worse. They still do it because this is a win now league and in case you aren't counting Ron has had 3 winning seasons in 8 years.

It's the same as "my girlfriend is pretty mean to me, rarely wants to do anything other than play on her phone, talks nonstop about a guy at work, but I do get laid every month or two....I can't just leave her, I don't know if I can find anyone better."

Thats what I hear when those posters say you can't cut ties with Ron if there isn't a clear cut better coach sitting on the corner of Mint St.

[thefuzz]

1 hour ago, SetfreexX said:

All these votes to move -- who are you bringing in?

Who out there is available...

 

Well, let's start with "who will likely be available at the conclusion of the 2019/2020 season?".

You will have a few surprise cuts in the HC ranks, and a few up and coming OC's and DC's that will be the soup du jour.

One at the very tip top of my list is going to have to try to get something out of Jimmy G this season.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

We shouldn't even be having this conversation, but here we are.

 

If Ron doesn't win the division this year, it's time for a change.  We are at a MAJOR crossroads at the moment.  We have some high priced vets (quite a few who are underperforming), and a lot of younger unsigned talent.

A deep playoff run, or a complete tear down from the top to the bottom.  I think those are your options at this point.

A complete teardown makes no sense at all and is a huge overreaction. We could go 11-5 and not win the division.  

[Turnip]

The sad thing is, I think it's almost irrelevant because we've missed our window. With better management from Cam's first year we likely could have had numerous stellar seasons; instead he's been behind sub-par OLs with sub-par receiving cores for almost every season he has been here.

Neither Rivera nor Hurney are the answer for Carolina but moving on from them is going to trigger a massive overhaul for sure. That's the hesitation. Once they're let go it will likely be a massive rebuild and by the time that rebuilding is complete (let's say 3-4 years to reach playoff levels again) Cam will be in his mid 30's and with his career that means maybe 2-4 years of quality Cam (if not less considering the number of hits he has taken in comparison with other quarterbacks).

The best move for Carolina is to pull something similar to what happened in Oakland but with more tact. Trade away players that can return tremendous draft capital and start a massive youth movement. New coach and new GMs. Build a team around CMC. 

[thefuzz]

11 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

A complete teardown makes no sense at all and is a huge overreaction. We could go 11-5 and not win the division.  

A complete teardown is closer than you think. 

1:  If Cam's shoulder is done, or can't make it through a full season we will need to start over at QB.

2:  If we don't make the playoffs, I fully expect the Marty and Ron show to be over.  Cam being hurt could certainly lead to that.

3:  We have very few players under contract long term that aren't aging vets, or underperforming vets.

 

Your no. 1 job as an NFL coach is to win the division.  It's the only way you can 100% stamp your ticket into the playoffs.  Do it.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Turnip said:

The sad thing is, I think it's almost irrelevant because we've missed our window. With better management from Cam's first year we likely could have had numerous stellar seasons; instead he's been behind sub-par OLs with sub-par receiving cores for almost every season he has been here.

Neither Rivera nor Hurney are the answer for Carolina but moving on from them is going to trigger a massive overhaul for sure. That's the hesitation. Once they're let go it will likely be a massive rebuild and by the time that rebuilding is complete (let's say 3-4 years to reach playoff levels again) Cam will be in his mid 30's and with his career that means maybe 2-4 years of quality Cam (if not less considering the number of hits he has taken in comparison with other quarterbacks).

The best move for Carolina is to pull something similar to what happened in Oakland but with more tact. Trade away players that can return tremendous draft capital and start a massive youth movement. New coach and new GMs. Build a team around CMC. 

If Cam's shoulder remains intact, we won't be looking at a rebuild, more of a re-tooling.

We haven't been able to trust that shoulder for a couple years now, and we still have a crap O Line blocking for him.  

If Cam's shoulder falls off the deep end, then it's start over from scratch with a few players extended to build around.  Burns, CMC, Samuel, DJ, Moton.

[SetfreexX]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

Well, let's start with "who will likely be available at the conclusion of the 2019/2020 season?".

You will have a few surprise cuts in the HC ranks, and a few up and coming OC's and DC's that will be the soup du jour.

One at the very tip top of my list is going to have to try to get something out of Jimmy G this season.

That's great and all but there will be other teams that need a coach...

Similar to Free Agency the player, or in this case, the coach would still have to choose us if the commodity is hot enough. McDaniels had accepted the Colts job before backing out. 

All I'm saying is we were in the playoffs in 13 (Divisional loss to SF), 15 (Superbowl Run), 17 (WC loss to NO) -- 11 & 12 were two seasons off of a 2-14 2010 season. With 6 then 7 wins respectively while rebuilding / reloading.

• 13, we made the playoffs with Steve Smith coming back on one leg vs SF
• 14, was the year we fielded -- KB, Cotchery, Jason Avant, Corey Brown, and Bersin
• 15, Superbowl Run with Ginn, Cotchery, Brown, & Funchess -- led the league in scoring / one of the best defense
• 16, was the year Gettleman decided not to pay Ginn, rescinded Norman's tag, and BLEW THE DRAFT (Vernon Butler, Darryl Worley, Zach Sanchez, Beau Sandland) & Michael Oher was concussed and eventually left the NFL while Trai Turner moved to RT, and REMMERS was a starting LT
• 17, playoff exit vs the Saints where again injuries decimated the receiving corps, one armed Funchess / Bersin / Kaelin Clay (dropped TD) -- and we still had a chance to win
• 18, 6-2 start then Cam's injury down the stretch

So while some want to reference 3 winning seasons, people need to remember how decimated our teams were in those losing years, not to mention Dave Gettleman did to us starting in 14' and onward what he's done to the Giants by gutting the depth of the roster, and alienating / trading / releasing the best players.  Not to mention BLOWING the 2016 draft.

So while I know Ron has his faults, we were ill equipped to handle that rash of injuries, and rarely does any team overcome those types of losses. 

 

[panthers55]

26 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

A complete teardown is closer than you think. 

1:  If Cam's shoulder is done, or can't make it through a full season we will need to start over at QB.

2:  If we don't make the playoffs, I fully expect the Marty and Ron show to be over.  Cam being hurt could certainly lead to that.

3:  We have very few players under contract long term that aren't aging vets, or underperforming vets.

 

Your no. 1 job as an NFL coach is to win the division.  It's the only way you can 100% stamp your ticket into the playoffs.  Do it.

I guess your idea of a complete rebuild is less radical than I envisioned you meant. Cam has been here for 9 years. The reality is if he doesn't have a great year we are likely not to resign him for 25-30 million after 2020. Agree that Ron could be gone but not sure Marty would follow. And don't agree that we have that many aging players under contract that need replacing . Luke is in year 9, is he aging and needs to be replaced? What about Turner?  Truth is we have a good mix of young and older vets but there aren't a ton underperforming. Even guys like Poe, McCoy and KK need to evaluated in the new scheme not the past 

[thefuzz]

32 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I guess your idea of a complete rebuild is less radical than I envisioned you meant. Cam has been here for 9 years. The reality is if he doesn't have a great year we are likely not to resign him for 25-30 million after 2020. Agree that Ron could be gone but not sure Marty would follow. And don't agree that we have that many aging players under contract that need replacing . Luke is in year 9, is he aging and needs to be replaced? What about Turner?  Truth is we have a good mix of young and older vets but there aren't a ton underperforming. Even guys like Poe, McCoy and KK need to evaluated in the new scheme not the past 

Turner hasn't been as good as he was when he signed, and he shouldn't be excluded from the conversation about how bad our O line is.  McCoy is a 1 year rental, Poe will be cut after this season, KK may be asked to take a pay cut or be cut after this season, Irvin is a 1 year rental.  Addison could be cut this season, and likely will be after this season if not.

Olsen needs to head to CBS, and likely will.

If Ron goes, Hurney is certainly gone, and if we are in that situation I fully expect us to part ways with Cam as well.  We still haven't signed Bradberry, Thompson isn't signed, Williams isn't signed, Reid can be cut after this season,  Luke is here for at least 2 more seasons.

Maybe I'm looking at things a little differently, but there is a LOT of moving pieces here, and I'm not convinced that Ron and Marty would be able to make all this work again if we start over at QB and all of those pieces move on.

[thefuzz]

49 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

That's great and all but there will be other teams that need a coach...

Similar to Free Agency the player, or in this case, the coach would still have to choose us if the commodity is hot enough. McDaniels had accepted the Colts job before backing out. 

All I'm saying is we were in the playoffs in 13 (Divisional loss to SF), 15 (Superbowl Run), 17 (WC loss to NO) -- 11 & 12 were two seasons off of a 2-14 2010 season. With 6 then 7 wins respectively while rebuilding / reloading.

• 13, we made the playoffs with Steve Smith coming back on one leg vs SF
• 14, was the year we fielded -- KB, Cotchery, Jason Avant, Corey Brown, and Bersin
• 15, Superbowl Run with Ginn, Cotchery, Brown, & Funchess -- led the league in scoring / one of the best defense
• 16, was the year Gettleman decided not to pay Ginn, rescinded Norman's tag, and BLEW THE DRAFT (Vernon Butler, Darryl Worley, Zach Sanchez, Beau Sandland) & Michael Oher was concussed and eventually left the NFL while Trai Turner moved to RT, and REMMERS was a starting LT
• 17, playoff exit vs the Saints where again injuries decimated the receiving corps, one armed Funchess / Bersin / Kaelin Clay (dropped TD) -- and we still had a chance to win
• 18, 6-2 start then Cam's injury down the stretch

So while some want to reference 3 winning seasons, people need to remember how decimated our teams were in those losing years, not to mention Dave Gettleman did to us starting in 14' and onward what he's done to the Giants by gutting the depth of the roster, and alienating / trading / releasing the best players.  Not to mention BLOWING the 2016 draft.

So while I know Ron has his faults, we were ill equipped to handle that rash of injuries, and rarely does any team overcome those types of losses. 

 

3 of 8.

Spin it however you want to, that's a bad track record with a franchise QB on your roster.

We haven't won a playoff game since 2015.  We haven't won the division since 2015.

There is exactly 1 coach with longer tenure than Ron who hasn't won a ring....Jason Garrett.

He makes a playoff run this year, and wins a playoff game...sure, stick around.  If he doesn't, show yourself the door.  That would mean 3 winning seasons in 9 years.

[raleigh-panther]

I suspect Tepper already has his people in mind 

smart business owners always have a contingency plan

i said in another thread, unapologetically, if this isn’t a deep playoff run, Ron and Hurney need to go  

No more excuses and he has had plenty of them, mostly caused by himself   We know the list  it doesn’t  need to be repeated and it needs to happen after the season and a new coach may also bring a decision on Cam   These are just what new regimes do, evaluate the old and clean house 

after 9 years, we don’t need to have the next Marvin Lewis 

my hope is the season goes well and none of this is necessary but I heard the geling bullshit on the oline, it seems like the same old Ron excuse.  O lines don’t have to always be perfectly precision but they should never look like they can’t evrn get to a stalemate one on one