Vernon Butler

[YoungPanthers89]

What an awful, awful pick that was. Didn't fill a need at the time, wasn't the BPA, never contributed even a little bit.

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, YoungPanthers89 said:

What an awful, awful pick that was. Didn't fill a need at the time, wasn't the BPA, never contributed even a little bit.

And put us in the position of having to sign a pricy DT free agent in each of the last to off-seasons.

[Mage]

It's not fair to put Otah and Butler in the same boat.  Butler was a bust because he sucked.  Otah was a bust because he got injured.  And say what you want about Otah, but it's understandably hard for a big freakin' dude like him to push through knee injuries.  

Butler was a bad pick and it's on the GM for taking him.  Otah was a bust, but you can't blame Hurney for it.  

[beastson]

God awful draft, one of the franchises worst drafts

[L-TownCat]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

I'm trying really hard to follow your logic here...

So how does the fact that we traded a 2nd and a 4th for that 1st round pick make it worse?  In either case, we simply "used 2 1sts" by your logic.  Seems like you're conflating actual draft pick usage and draft capital and you're confusing yourself and creating inconsistencies.

I don’t think I’m the one that’s confused bud.

[Xtreme]

11 hours ago, SuperBowlBound said:

Khalil Mack, Carson Wentz, Larry Ogunjobi, Cooper Kupp, Tarik Cohen and countless others would like to have a word with you. 

Jerry Rice, Darrell Green and DeMarcus Ware are some notable retired players that didn't play P5. Child please. That's a ridiculous statement to make.

You didn't read my post clearly enough. I said you get lucky every once in a while but the when referring to the majority, P5 schools are the way to go. Look at our team. Nearly all of our biggest playmakers are from P5 schools. 

[Sasquatch]

7 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

Right and he was selected with what pick?

edit: that makes it even worse...I forgot about the other 2 picks.  JFC what a turd!

The picks that we used to pick him were 1 first, 1 second and 1 fourth. That's what we spent on the pick used to take him. Nothing more than that.

 

[AceBoogie]

21 hours ago, Bunskie said:

I'm a glass half-full type of guy. I'm feeling pretty good that as a franchise, this is the first 1st round miss we've had in a WHILE. We've been crushing it for the last DECADE - and DJ/Burns have been looking hella promising. Cherry on top - we got fuggin McCoy from the Bucs.... Bruh - Vernon can go we goooood

Kelvin Benjamin 

[KB_fan]

14 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Butler's play last night pretty much opens the door for someone who really wants to make the team, and that may be the only good that came out of that draft pick. 

 

Given Butler's 3 years of experience, he should have looked like the best guy out there. So frustrating to see him still struggle.

I wonder if Cox and Obada could take his spot in the rotation? Or Vaeao or Hamilton? Thank goodness we brought Love back!

[Peon Awesome]

As far as the Otah pick goes, obviously in hindsight it was a bad move based on his injuries but had he stayed healthy, it wouldn't have been an egregious trade. He was a very solid starting tackle when healthy and even though we overpayed, since we had a strong year in 2009, the 1st rounder we sent was pick 28. So we basically traded a mid-2nd and 4th round pick to move from 28 to 19. Based on the draft trade chart, we overpayed by the equivalent of the 57th pick in the draft. Another way to quantify it is we paid 1.38 times the value of the pick we got. Again, not good but better than it sounds on paper.

[KB_fan]

8 hours ago, ImfromClayton said:

The further we get from gentleman, the worse he looks. Vern and KB on his first round record. The other 1s haven’t exactly been studs (yet) 

Well, to be fair, his 2017 draft is looking pretty stellar.  CMC, Samuel, Moton, Armah, Butker.

Elder - jury still out.

Hall - seemed like a bust, but looks like he played well last night for Philly, so maybe jury is still out for him too.

[KillerKat]

41 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

Given Butler's 3 years of experience, he should have looked like the best guy out there. So frustrating to see him still struggle.

I wonder if Cox and Obada could take his spot in the rotation? Or Vaeao or Hamilton? Thank goodness we brought Love back!

I agree it's frustrating. I believe atm McCoy, Poe, Short, Love, Butler, and Vaeao are the top six 3-4 DL. If Butler goes we'd have to pick up someone else or trade or just have someone like Hamilton fill his spot. Cox and Obada would get pushed around as they're too light for 3-4 on the line.

[KB_fan]

9 hours ago, stbugs said:

His stats were no different from any typical WR (that’s the top producing WR

I definitely understand the question of "what might have been" with KB if not for the ACL tear, but there is one HUGE caveat re: his rookie year stats. It's the number of targets.  If you look at catch % or yards per target, KB's stats look a lot worse.

73 catches on 145 targets.  1008 yards

That's a catch % of 50.3%

Yards per target of 6.95

Looking at other WRs in 2014 with at least 50 targets - there were 86 if them.

KB had the 6th most targets of any WR in 2014. He ranked 20th in total yards.

He ranked 77 of those 86 WRs in catch%

His yards per target rank was 64th.

So, in context of his targets, his rookie season wasn't so impressive...

I actually decided to use PFR to look at all rookie WRs getting at least 50 targets in their first year from 2014 to 2018.

There are 47 players.  KB ranks 37th in catch% and 35th in yards per target.

Funchess is 42 of 47 in terms of his rookie year catch % (49.2% Ouch!) but a respectable 28 in yards per target (7.51).

DJ Moore is 12th of 47 in catch % (67.1%) and 5th!!! in yards per target. (9.61).

So, pretty hard to deny Moore had a MUCH better rookie season than KB or Funch. The only rookie WRs ahead of Moore over this 5 year period in terms of yards per target their rookie season? 

JuJu

OBJ

Davante Parker

Tyler Lockett

[TN05]

3 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

I definitely understand the question of "what might have been" with KB if not for the ACL tear, but there is one HUGE caveat re: his rookie year stats. It's the number of targets.  If you look at catch % or yards per target, KB's stats look a lot worse.

73 catches on 145 targets.  1008 yards

That's a catch % of 50.3%

Yards per target of 6.95

Looking at other WRs in 2014 with at least 50 targets - there were 86 if them.

KB had the 6th most targets of any WR in 2014. He ranked 20th in total yards.

He ranked 77 of those 86 WRs in catch%

His yards per target rank was 64th.

So, in context of his targets, his rookie season wasn't so impressive...

I actually decided to use PFR to look at all rookie WRs getting at least 50 targets in their first year from 2014 to 2018.

There are 47 players.  KB ranks 37th in catch% and 35th in yards per target.

And it’s worth noting a ton of his yards came in garbage time. He had several excellent performances (week 1, Seattle playoffs) but also a ton of stinkers.