Cockrell the Free Safety

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, KillerKat said:

Gaulden isn't even playing the nickel position like Rivera wanted him to this offseason. May Gaulden be the surprise vet cut? Everyone knew it was a bad pick the moment it happened. Why didn't our coaches?

If Gaulden doesn't take a significant step forward would he even qualify as a surprise cut?

[Ivan The Awesome]

So the staff is trying to fix the problem before the season starts by putting a guy that is coming back from injury into a position he has never played before? 

 

Normally I'd be outraged by something like this but I have so much faith in the front seven to generate a consistent and ruthless pass rush that the news of Cockrell making the switch to Safety really doesn't concern me. 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

Remember when Coleman played well in 2015? If the FS is actually competent and there is a pass rush you get turnovers. That’s what we need not the pass rush hiding a poor FS.

That said, I’m all for trying Cockrell out. It’s a passing league so if we can get a FS that’s solid in coverage that seems like a plus to me

I strongly believe Kurt Coleman playing in 2015 is more of an anomaly of his play than the standard.  He had more INTs than nearly any 2 other years of his career combined.  We signed him that year for peanuts.  He probably wasn't even sure he was going to get to start on a team period before we signed him.  The last time he had been a starting safety he was graded out as one of the worst in the entire league.

Basically, we got lucky with someone that was largely considered a bottom of the bin safety, who ended up playing much better than anyone anticipated.

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

So the staff is trying to fix the problem before the season starts by putting a guy that is coming back from injury into a position he has never played before? 

 

Normally I'd be outraged by something like this but I have so much faith in the front seven to generate a consistent and ruthless pass rush that the news of Cockrell making the switch to Safety really doesn't concern me. 

Not so sure it's a hail Mary "trying to fix the problem" situation as much as it's having a guy on the roster who may fit the bill and is currently going to be relegated to backup duty, so why not give him a shot to earn a starting spot?

The hail Mary effort will be to follow with the signing of some washed up vet that gets cut.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I strongly believe Kurt Coleman playing in 2015 is more of an anomaly of his play than the standard.  He had more INTs than nearly any 2 other years of his career combined.  We signed him that year for peanuts.  He probably wasn't even sure he was going to get to start on a team period before we signed him.  The last time he had been a starting safety he was graded out as one of the worst in the entire league.

Basically, we got lucky with someone that was largely considered a bottom of the bin safety, who ended up playing much better than anyone anticipated.

Yeah, at the time the play of guys like Coleman and Mitchell was a breath of fresh air but in hindsight I think that may have further emboldened us to think we can make chicken salad out of chicken poo at FS because both of those guys were pretty much afterthought FAs when we brought them here.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, at the time the play of guys like Coleman and Mitchell was a breath of fresh air but in hindsight I think that may have further emboldened us to think we can make chicken salad out of chicken poo at FS because both of those guys were pretty much afterthought FAs when we brought them here

At some point though, yeah.  You are gonna have weak spots on your team you are trying to compensate for.  As far as this off season, there just wasn't a lot we could have done.  You have mediocre safeties like Tre Boston wanting top tier money.  The safety market blew up in general, and we had a ton of holes.  Some position was going to get left behind.  If we pursued a quality safety this off season, it would have meant missing on someone like Paradis, Little, or McCoy.

I would rather err on the side of our OLine (regardless of how I personally think about Little), and do everything possible to fix that.  And McCoy is just someone you go after, regardless.

So I can't really fault *this* off season for not adequately fixing the safety position.  I will say that I feel we've done a lot to do what we can to compensate for it, though.  And sometimes, that is all you can hope for.

Obviously previous years are different.  And while I understand the thought process behind Gaulden, and I hope he succeeds, I do also think a better bang-for-your-buck safety prospect could have been taken that year, for example.

 

 

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

8 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It wasn’t really as much of an anomaly as it was clearly his best year. Look at his starts. Before he came to us he had 32 starts and 10 interceptions. It’s not like he never had an interception. Even in 2016 when we sucked on pass defense, he had 4 interceptions.

Yes, 2015 was his high water mark, but he had always been decent at creating turnovers. If Coleman wasn’t averaging 5 interceptions per 16 starts in his first 5 years before getting 7 in 15, then I’d agree it’s all pass rush. Since he was decent at interceptions, I’ll still say that we need someone with good ball skills at FS to get turnovers when the front 7 is balling

He had 10 total interceptions before joining us, sure.  In 5 years.  That is 2 INT/year.  He lost his starting job in 2012, after being rated as one of the worst starting safeties in the NFL.  He started 3 games over 2013 and 2014.  He had 0 and 3 INTs those two years, as he was run out of Philly and joined KCC.  The two years he was actually a starter before joining us, he had 6 INT over those two years.  He started a total of 32 games before joining us.  Starting 3 for KCC, 2 his rookie year, and then 13 and 14 in 2011/12.

He had 1/3rd of his 21 career INTs (over 9 years) in that single 2015 season.

Everything about his 2015 play was an anomaly.  He has never been that good.

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

At some point though, yeah.  You are gonna have weak spots on your team you are trying to compensate for.  As far as this off season, there just wasn't a lot we could have done.  You have mediocre safeties like Tre Boston wanting top tier money.  The safety market blew up in general, and we had a ton of holes.  Some position was going to get left behind.  If we pursued a quality safety this off season, it would have meant missing on someone like Paradis, Little, or McCoy.

I would rather err on the side of our OLine (regardless of how I personally think about Little), and do everything possible to fix that.  And McCoy is just someone you go after, regardless.

So I can't really fault *this* off season for not adequately fixing the safety position.  I will say that I feel we've done a lot to do what we can to compensate for it, though.  And sometimes, that is all you can hope for.

Obviously previous years are different.  And while I understand the thought process behind Gaulden, and I hope he succeeds, I do also think a better bang-for-your-buck safety prospect could have been taken that year, for example.

 

 

It's the same story year after year though. Pure trash after FS just hoping to get lucky in the trash heap and come out with a decently serviceable player.

[Adb6368]

If the goal is to put your best 11 players on the field at one time then this would probably be the right move...

[bigdog10]

Our secondary should scare the s*** out of our fan base. We had better hope we can generate a pass rush this year. 

[Rubi]

Hurney has a history of taking corners and converting them to safety. I can’t think of one player that’s been successful with this strategy. 

[GoPanthers123]

What happened to Gaulden during camp anyway?

[Rubi]

12 minutes ago, bigdog10 said:

Our secondary should scare the s*** out of our fan base. We had better hope we can generate a pass rush this year. 

Other than Eric Reid I’m worried about every other player in the back end. 

Reid = stud 

[LinvilleGorge]

I feel pretty good about our outside CBs. My biggest questions are FS and nickelback.