Understanding Cam Newton by PFF.

[raz]

man sterling said cam needs to improve.  he's obviously racist

[GoobyPls]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Stick to your commentaries versus football analysis. Agreed Norv's system is more quarterback friendly but it is hardly dink and dunk. Cam may have made it look like that due to his shoulder issues. Norv has done a good job over the years staying current and adapting. He did a good job with Bridgewater before the injury. 

As for the no huddle offense, it is useful at times or if you are Peyton Manning most of the time but after Chip Kelly got fired you don't see it most of the time. 

Go back and look at Cam's efficiency in the last 2 minutes of each half when he would most likely be using the hurry up offense and what do you see? He is less efficient passing the ball compared to the rest of the game even when other teams are in prevent. So no the idea he is so great in no huddle is actually another huddle myth not supported by the facts.

The Vikings offense was mediocre even when Bridgewater was healthy, what are you talking about? They went from 28th ranked offense to 11th with Shurmur. 

 

And again thats a straight up lie and you know it, all the games last season when we went to a fast pace no huddle offense (Falcons, Eagles, Lions, Redskins) our offense starting moving the ball up and down the field at will. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

Scum Newton 

[Ivan The Awesome]

I don't think some of you actually saw the video. This video is actually fair towards Newton. They mention his footwork and mechanics and it needs to improve but y'all get your panties in a wod. Cam has openly said it needs to improve. The coaching staff has said it, why is it that PFF says it and all of a sudden they are Cam haters and trash? lol 

[Manther]

Ok, second play shown was clearly a Funches drop.  Yes he had to slide but it hit him square in the numbers there...that was all funfun.  Not a great pass, but Cam put the ball where it could realistically be caught.

The third play though shows what I think Cam's greatest weakness/strength, which is he forces the ball into tight windows, mostly cause he can. Brady will throw it away or eat it.  Cam's laser throws, though hard to catch, are often put where they have to be to avoid defenders.  The problem is, theres a risk involved.   In 2015 those tight windows went his way a lot.  Now with Norv, the routes are smarter, there is often someone open, if the line can give him time, Cam can go through his reads.  Cam had to throw tight windows for years because the line was trash, Shula is an idiot and KB/Fun Fun were soooo slowwww.  We won games  solely BECAUSE Cam can laser.  Now though, with Norv and better receivers, if the line holds, Cam can go through his reads.

We were resting his shoulder a couple practices a week by this point.  I think Norv hit the nail on the head when he said, after a while missing that practice catches up with you.  Cam missed a couple throws at the end of that game.  

 

[panthers55]

17 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

The Vikings offense was mediocre even when Bridgewater was healthy, what are you talking about? They went from 28th ranked offense to 11th with Shurmur. 

 

And again thats a straight up lie and you know it, all the games last season when we went to a fast pace no huddle offense (Falcons, Eagles, Lions, Redskins) our offense starting moving the ball up and down the field at will. 

Now you are in your element, throwing out opinions with minimal analysis and few facts. Shurmur came in as interim in November of 2016 and then in 2017 his only full season as OC for the Vikings his quarterback was Case Keenan not Bridgewater. So any improvement could be more the quarterback than the coordinator. But ignore the realities to further your opinion like usual.

[tiger7_88]

22 hours ago, CRA said:

with nothing to back it up.  I'd guess Wilson's numbers are better off his spot.   Aaron Rodgers probably is close.  Generally best to keep both those dudes in the pocket IMO

I seriously doubt there’s a single established NFL QB whose completion percentage is BETTER under pressure than it is when not under pressure.  

Now that is not to say that some of them, a la Russell and Rodgers, are better at getting completions under pressure than others, but actually having a higher % under pressure than not?  Uh uh, nope, you’re gonna have to bring some hard statistical evidence for me to believe in that unicorn.

Which brings me back to the fact of the guy I originally responded to who seemed genuinely shocked that Cam likely throws more incompletions under pressure than he does when not under pressure.

STOP THE PRESSES WE’VE GOT A MAJOR STORY HERE!

[panthers55]

8 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

I seriously doubt there’s a single established NFL QB whose completion percentage is BETTER under pressure than it is when not under pressure.  

Now that is not to say that some of them, a la Russell and Rodgers, are better at getting completions under pressure than others, but actually having a higher % under pressure than not?  Uh uh, nope, you’re gonna have to bring some hard statistical evidence for me to believe in that unicorn.

Which brings me back to the fact of the guy I originally responded to who seemed genuinely shocked that Cam likely throws more incompletions under pressure than he does when not under pressure.

STOP THE PRESSES WE’VE GOT A MAJOR STORY HERE!

The problem is that while you may be right that all quarterbacks are better with a clean pocket, the difference between the two can be small or quite large. Unfortunately Cam is ranked the second worse when under pressure over this 3 year period 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fantasy-football-metrics-that-matter-passing-differences-when-pressured

[tiger7_88]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

The problem is that while you may be right that all quarterbacks are better with a clean pocket, the difference between the two can be small or quite large. Unfortunately Cam is ranked the second worse when under pressure over this 3 year period 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fantasy-football-metrics-that-matter-passing-differences-when-pressured

Gosh, you think that maybe some of that (not all, but SOME) might be because of the frequency of pressure he's been under and the number of hits he's taken behind some utter crap offensive lines?

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH!  QUARTERBACKS THAT GET HIT AND PRESSURED MORE THAN OTHER QUARTERBACKS LIKELY THROW MORE INCOMPLETIONS THAN QUARTERBACKS THAT GET HIT AND PRESSURED LESS!  HOT OFF THE PRESSES!

[panthers55]

11 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Gosh, you think that maybe some of that (not all, but SOME) might be because of the frequency of pressure he's been under and the number of hits he's taken behind some utter crap offensive lines?

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH!  QUARTERBACKS THAT GET HIT AND PRESSURED MORE THAN OTHER QUARTERBACKS LIKELY THROW MORE INCOMPLETIONS THAN QUARTERBACKS THAT GET HIT AND PRESSURED LESS!  HOT OFF THE PRESSES!

Yeah I knew you might make that excuse.  He wasn't in the top 10 of quarterbacks with the most pressures. He was 15th in having the most clean pockets and 11th in number of pressured throws. So that doesn't account for his dismal performance under pressure.

News flash- Cam was under pressure an average amount of the time compared to the other guys but performed much poorer. And honestly that has been apparent to most Panther fans outside of the Cam apologists.   The truth is his penchance to hold the ball and scramble into sacks has at times made things look worse  than they would have been with a QB who gets the ball out quickly.

[Ricky Spanish]

17 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Gosh, you think that maybe some of that (not all, but SOME) might be because of the frequency of pressure he's been under and the number of hits he's taken behind some utter crap offensive lines?

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH!  QUARTERBACKS THAT GET HIT AND PRESSURED MORE THAN OTHER QUARTERBACKS LIKELY THROW MORE INCOMPLETIONS THAN QUARTERBACKS THAT GET HIT AND PRESSURED LESS!  HOT OFF THE PRESSES!

Dude... the chart breaks down the number of attempts under pressure. Cam has 362. Rodgers has 354. Wilson has 436. You're a homer if you think the Seahawks line has been better than ours the past few years. Seahawk's line has been Byron Bell at LT level bad for a while up until last season. 

You're plugging your ears, ignoring the evidence and then trying to move the goal posts further. It's OK to accept the fact that Cam is down right bad compared to good when he is and isn't pressured. It doesn't mean he sucks, it just means we need to do better at keeping him clean. 

[GoobyPls]

3 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Now you are in your element, throwing out opinions with minimal analysis and few facts. Shurmur came in as interim in November of 2016 and then in 2017 his only full season as OC for the Vikings his quarterback was Case Keenan not Bridgewater. So any improvement could be more the quarterback than the coordinator. But ignore the realities to further your opinion like usual.

Wtf? You are proving my point. Shurmur got the job in the first place cause Norv was terrible. And Keenum was career backup who has never proven anything to that point in his career. 

 

This is guy really can’t accept the fact Norv has been a failure as an OC the later half of his career, for the sole purpose to minimize Cam.

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Wtf? You are proving my point. Shurmur got the job in the first place cause Norv was terrible. And Keenum was career backup who has never proven anything to that point in his career. 

 

This is guy really can’t accept the fact Norv has been a failure as an OC the later half of his career, for the sole purpose to minimize Cam.

Actually Norv and Zimmer got into it about what the offense should be doing (not the first time Zimmer got into it with his staff) and Norv quit when he said Shurmur was going to call plays. Keenam had a quarterback rating of 98 which was the highest of his career that one year. If Shurmur was so talented than why has he sucked for the Giants. According to you quarterbacks don't matter so why is he doing so poorly with a Superbowl winning quarterback and a top running back?

This is a guy who has no credibility and knows little about football but has an opinion about everyone.  I tell it like it is, you tell it like you think it is which is usually wrong and off the wall.

[RelaxImaPro]

Aaron Rodgers will eat your ass alive to the tune of a 5+ TD performance if you let him get comfortable in the pocket.  You don’t want to leave him in the pocket, whoever said that earlier.  You want him thinking about that rush closing in on him.  Yeah, he’s still good as fug while moving outside the pocket but at least he won’t completely shred your defense (though sometimes he still does) as bad while being hurried and scrambling.