For all the crap given Poe

[GoobyPls]

Poe was getting manhandled by one on one blockers. He was bad  

[SmittysLawnGuy]

12 hours ago, top dawg said:

Dontari Poe certainly had a disappointing season when juxtaposed against expectations when he was signed. I mean, the 66th best tackle (according to PFF) was not what we thought we were getting. That being said, PFF still graded his play as "above average." The man still is an effective space eater, had four tackles for loss, 17 tackles and a sack last season. You know whose grade was a little worse, as well as his stats at 17 tackles and one pass defensed? The man Poe replaced, Star Lotulelei. PFF graded him as "average," and even suggested that the Bills upgrade him by going after Sheldon Richardson earlier this off-season. 

I guess that I say all this to say that I'd rather have Poe than Lotulelei. If nothing else, Poe gives off the demeanor as a guy that wants to improve, and with the players that he has flanking him, I wouldn't bet against him making a leap his second year in Charlotte.

I mean damn. If every team in the league ran a 4-3 there would only be 64 starting tackles. Not sure how 66th best would be above average. Seems like some really fuzzy math if you ask me.

[pantherclaw]

Fans always undervalue NTs. 

This is nothing new for the huddle. 

[pantherclaw]

I also refuse to waste time passing judgement on Poe on his first year with us in which the entire defense failed to perform. 

[top dawg]

8 minutes ago, SmittysLawnGuy said:

I mean damn. If every team in the league ran a 4-3 there would only be 64 starting tackles. Not sure how 66th best would be above average. Seems like some really fuzzy math if you ask me.

I mean, you're basically suggesting that just because someone is a starter in the league that that makes them better than a backup or a rotational guy on another team. That's not necessarily true at all. 

Just think, it's been said that Kyle Love was our best DT last season. I mean, were all starting receivers really better than Curtis Samuel last season? Was Lesson McCoy or Duke Johnson better last season? Efficiency has to play a part in there somewhere, and I'm pretty sure that there has to be a minimum number of snaps to even count. It's not as simple as seeing who is starting. 

Star is a starter, and he has never been terrible (that's the truth), the problem is that he never played up to his draft position and/or expectations. I would argue that he still played average to above overall. Now ask yourself, "Who played better, Lotulelei or Poe?" Put that not only within the context of last season, but for their respective careers. I would say that both of them deserve an average or above average grade. Grades should be about what you did, and your ranking is what you did relative to other guys at your position (within the sample size and with a certain minimum number of snaps so as not to skew the numbers). Expectations based upon money paid really has no part of this.

[emcannon]

10 hours ago, Pimpdaddy said:

Star found what he was looking for... a payday on our farm team...the Buffalo Bills... he never aspired to be great..even after we took a chance on him when he was choking on his heart...  Donitari Ho should be embarrassed for getting  blowed off the line by 5yds consistently ....how does that happen, his ass is 4ft wide...

Seems a little harsh to question a man's desire for greatness and use his heart condition against him. Star was good while he was in Charlotte. 

[bigdavis]

1 hour ago, SmittysLawnGuy said:

I mean damn. If every team in the league ran a 4-3 there would only be 64 starting tackles. Not sure how 66th best would be above average. Seems like some really fuzzy math if you ask me.

I don't think they were referring to only "starting" tackles, as you assumed. If every team had 5 on their roster, that's make 160 in the league, as a universe of DT's. That's my new math, anyway.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

9 hours ago, Ship said:

Star played with effort and was a professional here. Idk why he seemed to regress statistically here, but I don't think it was a lack of effort. Just the way it went. Maybe injuries to an extent.

But Star didn't seem to care about being here, which kinda sucked more than whether he was good or not. For a guy we were all so hyped on, he didn't leave a mark here at all, which is weird for someone of his talent. He doesn't make me mad, just makes me feel blank.

I'm not gonna expect much of Poe. Not sure if he can play at noticeably high level here anymore or not, but we just need a body who won't get pushed around. We've gotta hope McCoy brings some fire and KK gets back to producing.

Same.  

I will give him the benefit to f the doubt though as I don’t know the dynamics of the team room and FO interactions.  One anecdotal thing and seem to recall though is KK shining more than Star and being the “team” guy.  

Something was posted here in what I believe to be Star/kKK 1st of 2nd year.   KK was running BOA steps with TD.  At the time t seemed a bit of an odd pairing (fast OLB with brute DT sprinting steps) but it said a lot about the chemistry and camaraderie.   Not sure if there was an underlying comparison between Star and KK but would not be surprised.

just my completely hindsight .02 worth of speculation in an offseason thread.  

[Zaximus]

Let's be honest, more than half the year least year the defense was pretty meh.    When Ron took over it got much better.    Let's see how he does this year, with no excuses and a lot more talent around him.

[Peppers90 NC]

His best days were as a NT, so maybe put back there could bolster his production.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, pennywise said:

Star didnt want to be in Carolina? But he does in Buffalo?

I don't really know what was going on in his head, and don't know what's going on now, just speculating by observation of his demeanor. I already said that maybe that's just his way.

As to Charlotte vs Buffalo, rookies don't generally pick their destinations (unless they're like Eli Manning), so it's not hard to imagine someone not particularly liking where they're drafted, especially after losing millions based upon what effectively was a bogus condition. That second contract generally entails choices and more money. Now, as I said, perhaps Star liked the Panthers and Charlotte, I don't know, but some cats are just super laid back. 

I can also tell you from experience, that there are plenty of people in Buffalo, even football players, that wouldn't think of leaving Buffalo for Charlotte (if you're suggesting that Charlotte is obviously better). Moreover, with Brandon Beane and company up in Buffalo, I can see a player wanting to go to the Bills, or choosing the Bills over the Panthers. Hell, they're Panthers North.

[TheRumGone]

Star was well liked and liked it here. Several podcasts of him talking about his family loving the area and how much he liked his teammates (including kk). And it wasn’t fluff stuff. They were all laughing and cracking jokes. There was a bond evident between the two.

he went for the most money, because he has like a bajillion kids. The only thing disappointing to me about star was he never developed into a substantial pass rusher. When we drafted him I thought he could be the next Suh. That didn’t happen but he was great at what he thrived in; An excellent run defender. And taking on double sometimes even triple teams. Star is a beast. 

[TheRumGone]

Also Poe gets another year before I make any decision on him. The defense was absolute trash as a whole. I even questioned Luke’s desire to play, which I regret. But that defense last year was an absolute dumpster fire until Rivera took over and that even took a little bit to get adjusted.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

11 hours ago, top dawg said:

I mean, you're basically suggesting that just because someone is a starter in the league that that makes them better than a backup or a rotational guy on another team. That's not necessarily true at all. 

Just think, it's been said that Kyle Love was our best DT last season. I mean, were all starting receivers really better than Curtis Samuel last season? Was Lesson McCoy or Duke Johnson better last season? Efficiency has to play a part in there somewhere, and I'm pretty sure that there has to be a minimum number of snaps to even count. It's not as simple as seeing who is starting. 

Star is a starter, and he has never been terrible (that's the truth), the problem is that he never played up to his draft position and/or expectations. I would argue that he still played average to above overall. Now ask yourself, "Who played better, Lotulelei or Poe?" Put that not only within the context of last season, but for their respective careers. I would say that both of them deserve an average or above average grade. Grades should be about what you did, and your ranking is what you did relative to other guys at your position (within the sample size and with a certain minimum number of snaps so as not to skew the numbers). Expectations based upon money paid really has no part of this.

Great comeback but you also have to be real about it. If you're not better than the 66th tackle in the league then you suck and that's far from above average. I think Poe will play well as a 3-4 anchor. His 4-3 play absolutely wasn't worth a third of his contract. Put a shiny spin on that. Hey don't let reality get in the way. I love ya dawg but a pig with a pink bow tie is still a pig.