The question of Bradberry

[JawnyBlaze]

Bradberry has never been bad. He’s been amazing at times and just good at times. The catch percentage and yards of separation are much more important stats, plus I challenge pff’s ability to judge tds allowed. If he was switching late in the route to cover for someone else who blew the coverage (saw that happen numerous times) are they counting those against bradberry? I’m pretty sure they are. Bradberry is one of the most underappreciated by the fan base players we’ve had. He’s our best CB, the best we’ve had since Norman, and one of the few really good ones we’ve had in the history of the team. Pay him now. Pay him like a tier two CB, he’s not among the very best in the league but he’s among the second level of CBs. 

[Grendel]

37 minutes ago, top dawg said:

No way! His play hasn't earned that. I would let him play out the season and revisit the situation. Somewhere between 7.5 and 9 mil seems about right.

We will never keep him for that amount.  I’m good in that 11 to 12 million range.  Pay the man.

[top dawg]

22 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Bradberry has never been bad. He’s been amazing at times and just good at times. The catch percentage and yards of separation are much more important stats, plus I challenge pff’s ability to judge tds allowed. If he was switching late in the route to cover for someone else who blew the coverage (saw that happen numerous times) are they counting those against bradberry? I’m pretty sure they are. Bradberry is one of the most underappreciated by the fan base players we’ve had. He’s our best CB, the best we’ve had since Norman, and one of the few really good ones we’ve had in the history of the team. Pay him now. Pay him like a tier two CB, he’s not among the very best in the league but he’s among the second level of CBs. 

Bradberry was not good the season before last, and that's why he earned a "poor" rating from PFF.

[JawnyBlaze]

18 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Bradberry was not good the season before last, and that's why he earned a "poor" rating from PFF.

PFF’s ratings are utterly meaningless. They’re decent for some stats but no more insightful than your average fan beyond that. 

[top dawg]

Just now, JawnyBlaze said:

PFF’s ratings are utterly meaningless. They’re decent for some stats but no more insightful than your average fan beyond that. 

This is patently untrue. Most NFL franchises use PFF. It's true. I'm not going to argue the point because I've already researched it.

The reason that most teams use PFF is because it is a valid tool to help determine a player's value, particularly with its metrics. There are other, more general things that it does that is more opinion-centric, but that's not its main function which is to help NFL types impartially grade players. Management, coaches and even players themselves reference PFF as it pertains to performance and money all the time. 

PFF is not the be-all-end-all, but it is most certainly more valid and useful than you're letting on.

[Car123]

1 hour ago, JawnyBlaze said:

PFF’s ratings are utterly meaningless. They’re decent for some stats but no more insightful than your average fan beyond that. 

Worley was better than Bradberry in 2017. Paying avg-good players top money was what got us into cap hell. I don't think Hurney will extend him until he shows consistent top end play.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Car123 said:

Worley was better than Bradberry in 2017. Paying avg-good players top money was what got us into cap hell. I don't think Hurney will extend him until he shows consistent top end play.

 

I'm not even trying to be funny. I think that many Huddlers have become so used to inconsistent play at the position, that they don't even recognize what "consistent top end play" is anymore. In my opinion, they're taking a guy who is probably the second CB on most teams and inflating his value to top end status when his play hasn't reflected that.

As you suggested, cap implications are real. If you miss on his contract by overpaying,  you could cause big problems elsewhere.

[L-TownCat]

On 6/13/2019 at 1:45 PM, top dawg said:

14th best cornerback

 

On 6/13/2019 at 1:45 PM, top dawg said:

48.6 percent catch rate, which was the third lowest in the league

 

On 6/13/2019 at 1:45 PM, top dawg said:

two yards of separation at target, which was better than any other cornerback in the NFL last year.

Oh he gave up 7 TDs huh?  Hmm... now how can the 14th ranked corner with the 3rd lowest catch rate and lowest yards of separation manage to get "burned" 7 times for scores?  Context is everything.

 

The kid is as solid as a rock.  Give him a solid deal and quit stressing.

[top dawg]

7 hours ago, L-TownCat said:

 

 

Oh he gave up 7 TDs huh?  Hmm... now how can the 14th ranked corner with the 3rd lowest catch rate and lowest yards of separation manage to get "burned" 7 times for scores?  Context is everything.

 

The kid is as solid as a rock.  Give him a solid deal and quit stressing.

I thought certain people would be more thoughtful than to take Next Gen Stats and run with it as some type of gold standard (even above their own eyes and general knowledge of the game).

At least PFF gives you a clearer picture as to exactly what they are looking at as they pour over hours of film.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-signature-stat-spotlight-cornerbacks-2

 

Now what the hell is Next Gen Stats using? Can anyone tell me? I really would like to know.

Here is an article about the reason behind Next Gen Stats: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/how-the-nfl-and-amazon-unleashed-next-gen-stats-to-grok-football-games/

 

Now, not trying to be funny in the slightest, go to their site and tell me wtf is going on first of all, and then tell me about these advanced metrics for cornerbacks---hell, defensive backs---that they are using since you are giving them so much significance.

----------

Homework for anyone up to it:

As an off note, in a by-the-way kind of way, admittedly casual sense---perhaps just by name recognition---go though each team and tell me that you'd rather have bradberry over their top corner (and possibly even their cb2), and tell me how Bradberry deserves more than (let's say) 10 mil per year based upon current contracts.

 

[L-TownCat]

47 minutes ago, top dawg said:

As an off note, in a by-the-way kind of way, admittedly casual sense---perhaps just by name recognition---go though each team and tell me that you'd rather have bradberry over their top corner (and possibly even their cb2), and tell me how Bradberry deserves more than (let's say) 10 mil per year based upon current contracts

I don’t have the time to sift thru the leagues CBs.  Nor do I endorse paying a “solid” CB more than 10mil per.  That’s about right.  Solid numbers for solid numbers.  Jackson should turn in our splash plays.  

[top dawg]

36 minutes ago, L-TownCat said:

I don’t have the time to sift thru the leagues CBs.  Nor do I endorse paying a “solid” CB more than 10mil per.  That’s about right.  Solid numbers for solid numbers.  Jackson should turn in our splash plays.  

 

OK then, so what's the argument?We're more or less in agreement about the money. I don't mind paying, but I do mind overpaying. The money---the cap implications---is the bottom line. Value is the name of the game on the business side. Of course the manipulation, mismanagement, and mastery of the budget plays a part in the product on the field, but you get what I'm saying.

[L-TownCat]

22 hours ago, top dawg said:

 

OK then, so what's the argument?We're more or less in agreement about the money. I don't mind paying, but I do mind overpaying. The money---the cap implications---is the bottom line. Value is the name of the game on the business side. Of course the manipulation, mismanagement, and mastery of the budget plays a part in the product on the field, but you get what I'm saying.

I don't recall an argument to pay him elite money.  He's a solid player, therefore, solid pay.  10mil or there about should be just fine for a humble kid like JB.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, L-TownCat said:

I don't recall an argument to pay him elite money.  He's a solid player, therefore, solid pay.  10mil or there about should be just fine for a humble kid like JB.

You don't even seem like you read the article or some of the responses in the thread, but that's fine.

I think that 10 mil is an overpay based upon Bradberry body of work. This article is a little dated, but not that old. Bradberry isn't in this class yet. He's too inconsistent. There are other, younger cats with just as high (maybe some higher) of a level of play who will probably command more when their time comes. 

11 and 12 mil is certainly an overpay in my mind, and as much as Hurney has been dragged through the mud for overpaying, now some people seem to want him to be careless as pertaining to Bradberry. I don't mind paying Bradberry, but pay him according to his value. I may be willing to live with 10, especially considering the structure, but 8 or 9 seems about right to me. 

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/sports/heat-index/2017/01/13/ranking-nfl-cornerbacks-by-salary/96542412/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/96544074

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-cornerbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

 

[L-TownCat]

3 hours ago, top dawg said:

You don't even seem like you read the article or some of the responses in the thread, but that's fine.

I think that 10 mil is an overpay based upon Bradberry body of work. This article is a little dated, but not that old. Bradberry isn't in this class yet. He's too inconsistent. There are other, younger cats with just as high (maybe some higher) of a level of play who will probably command more when their time comes. 

11 and 12 mil is certainly an overpay in my mind, and as much as Hurney has been dragged through the mud for overpaying, now some people seem to want him to be careless as pertaining to Bradberry. I don't mind paying Bradberry, but pay him according to his value. I may be willing to live with 10, especially considering the structure, but 8 or 9 seems about right to me. 

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/sports/heat-index/2017/01/13/ranking-nfl-cornerbacks-by-salary/96542412/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/96544074

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-cornerbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

 

ok. 

Not trying to play word games but if there are younger guys with better stats than JB when their times come they should command more than him.  I don't understand your point here?

1) because they did better

2) cap increases/position demand etc

Now, the existence of other players does nothing to help our team.  We can sign JB or not, that does not make the other guys available.  If an upgrade is available sure, no argument.  But if we don't sign him or just cut him you better have a replacement ready.

Im on record not being a fan of our staff or FO, but they love the guy.  He's here, period.