LG

[Black&BlueBubba]

Marty did say that the level that Moton played at RT you would want to keep him there.  

They did have Williams at LT for a couple reps yesterday.  That scares the hell out of me with prior experience.  But if little isn’t ready day one I can see Williams starting at LT.  Not a fan, would almost feel better with Moton there to start.  

But that is a lot of jumbling of the line.  They need to find some consistency in the line early.  And for that Little has to be able to be a day one starter.  

Training camp will be buzzing with all the line moves.  

[rayzor]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Let's just hope Little can win the job. If not, likely going to be looking at another OL with some definitive weaknesses. 

I actually adjusted my post to reflect what I was thinking initially and what I think is probably more correct as far as personnel groupings. One thing I have not wavered from is the idea that Little will be able to win the LT job fairly easy and that he will be good. 

There was a lot if discussion and debate, even between Hurney and the scouts over who would be the best choice for OL between Ford and Little. Apparently the scouts liked Ford better because he was a strong player you could plug in anywhere and do well (kind of like Moton), but Little was an LT and his skill set kind of has him limited to that. The scouts wanted Ford and Hurney wanted Little. T h, the only way Ford was going to be the choice was if Little was gone because Hurney had his mind made up early on that he was going to get Little and the truth is if Burns was gone Little was going to be the pick. 

Why I think he will be good is that when Hurney really does his work and puts in a lot of time checking someone out, he's pretty stinking good which is why he has done so well with his first round picks. The problem has always been that aside from a handful of players he really checks out, he kind of just throws darts at the board. Hurney spent more time with Little than any other prospect this year. He really did his homework and felt strongly enough about him that he would have been comfortable taking him at 16.

This isn't a situation like clause or one of his other busts that he jumped the gun on because with clausen there was no meetings or due diligence done. It was a desperation move driven by unwarranted hype. No interviews were done. Nothing.

Point is, I think this is as much of a homerun pick as any of his other first round picks.

 

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I actually adjusted my post to reflect what I was thinking initially and what I think is probably more correct as far as personnel groupings. One thing I have not wavered from is the idea that Little will be able to win the LT job fairly easy and that he will be good. 

There was a lot if discussion and debate, even between Hurney and the scouts over who would be the best choice for OL between Ford and Little. Apparently the scouts liked Ford better because he was a strong player you could plug in anywhere and do well (kind of like Moton), but Little was an LT and his skill set kind of has him limited to that. The scouts wanted Ford and Hurney wanted Little. T h, the only way Ford was going to be the choice was if Little was gone because Hurney had his mind made up early on that he was going to get Little and the truth is if Burns was gone Little was going to be the pick. 

 Why I think he will be good is that when Hurney really does his work and puts in a lot of time checking someone out, he's pretty stinking good which is why he has done so well with his first round picks. The problem has always been that aside from a handful of players he really checks out, he kind of just throws darts at the board. Hurney spent more time with Little than any other prospect this year. He really did his homework and felt strongly enough about him that he would have been comfortable taking him at 16.

 This isn't a situation like clause or one of his other busts that he jumped the gun on because with clausen there was no meetings or due diligence done. It was a desperation move driven by unwarranted hype. No interviews were done. Nothing.

 Point is, I think this is as much of a homerun pick as any of his other first round picks.

 

I definitely don't share your optimism about Little, the move in general, or Hurney's history of trading up but I damn sure hope you are right. It would get a monkey off our back that has existed since Gross retired and it would go a LOOOOOOOONG way to helping Cam not get shelled back there.

[rayzor]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

I definitely don't share your optimism about Little, the move in general, or Hurney's history of trading up but I damn sure hope you are right. It would get a monkey off our back that has existed since Gross retired and it would go a LOOOOOOOONG way to helping Cam not get shelled back there.

And I'm definitely no fan of his trading up efforts in the past but with the majority of them, it was him trying to pull himself out of a hole he had dug for himself the previous year and I really think they were largely somewhat uneducated desperation decision moves. 

I think this is probably closer to the draft we got Stewart and Otah in 2008. Now Otah wound up being a bust, but that was only after his injury after 2 years of being a legit monster RT. No one can predict injuries and no one can predict the psychological effect of injuries (which I think was the biggest factor in him not coming back to form post-injury). I give Hurney a pass on Otah as the selection. I don't give him a pass on trading away the next year's first round pick, though. Otah was a good pick, but they overpaid for him. I think the big lesson Hurney learned (eventually) was don't mortgage the future/trade first round picks because it puts you in a bad situation. Esp. Him where the real and probably only real strength he has is looking at potential first round picks.

[SetfreexX]

I think we have ourselves a LT, to a degree a pure pass protector, when you review critical tape on Little (not highlight clips) but cut ups and break downs very few have anything negative to say about his pass pro. Almost all comeback to consistency in the run game, and if that is the main critique on a rookie LT I'll live with that, as the run game is something that can be addressed simpler than needed to improve on a tackle that is being critiqued in pass pro. 

For the guys down on Little, only he and Jonah Williams out of the top tackles selected if memory serves faced the highest caliber of competition both being in the SEC, that is about as good a proving ground as you are going to get. I know some have the Brown, and Edwards trades in mind, but we literally swapped 2nd's and added a 3rd. That is not a high price with OTHER teams maneuvering to get up into the top of the 2nd round for their own choice of tackle. 

We didn't need a swing lineman, we needed a LT, and you'd have to believe we got one, there is very little information out there to discredit this prospects ability to protect a QB on the left side of the line. 

[mc52beast]

If Little doesn’t win the job at LT there will be a meltdown of historical proportions at the Huddle... will have popcorn ready.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

12 hours ago, rayzor said:

Makes sense to me. Little-Williams-Paradis-Turner-Moton is what I've been expecting since we drafted little. 

*Day after edit: I wasn't sure about my reasoning for this and went back to double check and I actually didn't think this was the best formation. I believed then and still do believe (after pondering more) that the best lineup would have Moton as LG and Williams as RT. Mainly because Moton would be a stronger and more experienced LG next to a rookie LT. 

I would be ok either way and think that Moton is the future at RT, but I think that for this year and with this group Moton at LG would be better than Williams.

There is likely not much separation between Moton and Williams at RT at least in the long term, but even after injury I have to believe that Williams having more experience would be better than Moton in the immediate future and that he would be a better RT than LG.

Moton is that rare bird you can just plug in pretty much anywhere on the line and he'd do well.

If Moton is truly a plug and play type of guy we should wrap him up long term.  The line is in good shape for a while if Little pans out even if Williams walks after next season.  

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

And I'm definitely no fan of his trading up efforts in the past but with the majority of them, it was him trying to pull himself out of a hole he had dug for himself the previous year and I really think they were largely somewhat uneducated desperation decision moves. 

I think this is probably closer to the draft we got Stewart and Otah in 2008. Now Otah wound up being a bust, but that was only after his injury after 2 years of being a legit monster RT. No one can predict injuries and no one can predict the psychological effect of injuries (which I think was the biggest factor in him not coming back to form post-injury). I give Hurney a pass on Otah as the selection. I don't give him a pass on trading away the next year's first round pick, though. Otah was a good pick, but they overpaid for him. I think the big lesson Hurney learned (eventually) was don't mortgage the future/trade first round picks because it puts you in a bad situation. Esp. Him where the real and probably only real strength he has is looking at potential first round picks.

Yeah the Otah bust was injury related, so that I rarely hold against a GM or coach. That is just always "poo happens." 

If Hurney can hit on the first and second round picks in this draft, this would absolutely be a successful draft. And, honestly, we really need that. With the likely roster turnover in the next 2-3 seasons, we can't afford to have many bad drafts. The streak of bad Gettleman drafts left us with some pretty serious holes.

[Peppers90 NC]

Caveat to moving Williams to G. He is playing for a new contract, T money. He could be disgruntled moving to guard.

[Captain Morgan]

Daryl can play guard this year and still get paid next year by someone else as a tackle.  All he has to do is point to his pro-bowl year....teams are desperate for tackles.  He'll get his.

This is our last year with Daryl.  

[LinvilleGorge]

IMO, there are two huge factors to this whole OL situation.

1. Little has to win the LT spot from day one. If not, then Moton and Williams are the starting OTs.

2. Williams's re-injury risk. From what I've read, there's a very real risk of re-injury with his particular injury. I'm not a huge fan of allowing injury risk to dictate your lineup, but coaches really do not like being in a situation where an injury to an injury prone player will force them to make changes at two positions and that's the situation we'd be in if we played Moton at LG and Williams at RT. In that situation, of Williams re-injury that knee, you have to pull Moton from LG to RT and plug in Van Roten or Larsen at LG where as Williams at LG and Moton at RT would just mean plugging in Van Roten or Larsen at LG.

I just hope we were completely up front with Williams regarding the potential of him playing LG before we re-signed him. He didn't seem too happy when that subject was brought up, but if we were up front with him about it then that's on him for putting pen to paper.

[MHS831]

16 hours ago, rayzor said:

Moton is that rare bird you can just plug in pretty much anywhere on the line and he'd do well.

I keep thinking he could be the g as well.

[MHS831]

5 hours ago, rayzor said:

This isn't a situation like clause or one of his other busts that he jumped the gun on because with clausen there was no meetings or due diligence done. It was a desperation move driven by unwarranted hype. No interviews were done. Nothing.

Point is, I think this is as much of a homerun pick as any of his other first round picks.

 

Dammit, Rayzor--made me read a long post before getting to  some damn good stuff at the end--your comparison to Clausen is spot on---Little is perhaps the most researched player we had--a visit, personal workout, interview, etc.  I think Dwayne Jarrett could fall into this category as well--an impulse purchase at the checkout line.  The fact that we got him at 37 or so is a steal because  i get the idea that if Burns  had been gone, Little would have been our first rounder. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Who cares? He came back to us because he couldn’t find anyone else to give him more money. If he doesn’t do what’s asked of him he’s just making his next deal worse. He’d be just as happy with top G money if he can get it as that has been trending upwards the past few years with some guards making pretty close to top tackle money.

The only way I'd feel bad for him is if we straight up told him that he was going to be a starting OT for us. I highly doubt that we did that, but if we did then I'd feel bad for him for being lied to.

Of course, if you were paying me $6M this year, I wouldn't give a flying fug if you lied to me or not.