Bench: I’m going to keep Will Grier safe

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Given what they've said about how they saw the needs in the draft, it's most likely that if they still had the 77th pick, they would have used it on Greer and the 100th pick on somebody else.

People would probably be b-tching even more under that circumstance than they are now.

Yeah, that is getting a little too far down the hypothetical road. Perhaps so. It's obvious they targeted specific guys that pretty much went after them in the first three rounds. I don't necessarily find fault with that as a method, I just don't agree on the player evaluations or the way they rank the needs. I guess we will see whether keyboard jockeys or NFL coaches are correct in the upcoming season(s).

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Michaelinraleigh said:

You're still ducking. 

 

 

And you are losing.

He did finally answer.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, that is getting a little too far down the hypothetical road. Perhaps so. It's obvious they targeted specific guys that pretty much went after them in the first three rounds. I don't necessarily find fault with that as a method, I just don't agree on the player evaluations or the way they rank the needs. I guess we will see whether keyboard jockeys or NFL coaches are correct in the upcoming season(s).

I agree a lot more with the quarterback evaluations now that Norv Turner is on board than I would have otherwise. Ditto other offensive skill positions.

Gantt has confirmed that Grier was their top target, so here's hoping Norv is right.

The pick I liked the least was Eric Little, and trading up for him when it didn't look like anybody else was interested in taking him didn't improve my outlook. I hope he succeeds, but that one scares me.

Truth be told though, it's the methodology that worries me more than the players. I'm not a big fan of drafting for need because it's too easy to reach.

Again, we'll see how it works out.

[therealmjl]

15 minutes ago, Michaelinraleigh said:

You're still ducking. 

 

 

And you are losing.

Who even are you 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I agree a lot more with the quarterback evaluations now that Norv Turner is on board than I would have otherwise. Ditto other offensive skill positions.

Gantt has confirmed that Grier was their top target, so here's hoping Norv is right.

The pick I liked the least was Eric Little, and trading up for him when it didn't look like anybody else was interested in taking him didn't improve my outlook. I hope he succeeds, but that one scares me.

Truth be told though, it's the methodology that worries me more than the players. I'm not a big fan of drafting for need because it's too easy to reach.

Again, we'll see how it works out.

Yeah and I know he is regarded as a QB whisperer but I just don't see the infatuation with Grier. 

I agree on Little. I just don't think that he is gone before we pick in the second. Even if he was, I think there were other OT's we could have taken. I know a lot of the defense is that there have been other players that looked bad in the movement drills at the combine and were successful but I am not a fan of taking outlier scenarios and using them as justification. All that being said, I do think we probably got one of the top 2 highest ceiling guys at OT. I am just pessimistic about that pick panning out.

I also agree about reaching for need over playing the board. That is how you end up getting bad picks. The worst part is, we can easily reference the awful Gettleman drafts that we made RECENTLY to see how bad of an idea that is, yet the FO and coaching staff seems to have gone down that road again. 

Regardless, we really do need Hurney and Co. to have hit on this draft. We are in a position where we can ill afford to have underwhelming drafts.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, mjligon said:

Who even are you 

I believe he is Michael from Raleigh.

[My Goodness My Guinness]

I think it was a pretty smart pick tbh. Grier has a ton of upside. However, he has the same flaw as Cam but without the arm, doesn't use his lower body to throw. Well Cam never fixed that and we've seen what that's done to his shoulder. Maybe Grier will adjust since he won't be able to compensate with arm strength. If he didn't have this issue Grier would probably have been a first round qb. 

Hopefully Norv and the coaches can pull some magic. 

Cam's a baller when healthy, obviously. But he's not healthy and may not ever be healthy again. It's not hating if you are literally just taking precautions in case he can't perform any more. 

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah and I know he is regarded as a QB whisperer but I just don't see the infatuation with Grier. 

I agree on Little. I just don't think that he is gone before we pick in the second. Even if he was, I think there were other OT's we could have taken. I know a lot of the defense is that there have been other players that looked bad in the movement drills at the combine and were successful but I am not a fan of taking outlier scenarios and using them as justification. All that being said, I do think we probably got one of the top 2 highest ceiling guys at OT. I am just pessimistic about that pick panning out.

I also agree about reaching for need over playing the board. That is how you end up getting bad picks. The worst part is, we can easily reference the awful Gettleman drafts that we made RECENTLY to see how bad of an idea that is, yet the FO and coaching staff seems to have gone down that road again. 

Regardless, we really do need Hurney and Co. to have hit on this draft. We are in a position where we can ill afford to have underwhelming drafts.

Grier elicits a lot of different opinions. I've seen people who don't even think he's capable of starting and others who think he was as high as the second best quarterback in this year's draft.

For my part, I watched almost every game Grier played last year. I came away thinking "this kid's going to be good". Obviously, I hope I'm right. More to the point, I hope Norv and Scott Turner are right.

We absolutely need for them to be.

[Carl Spackler]

16 minutes ago, Michaelinraleigh said:

FTR I gave us a C. I thought we overpaid for Little and Grier and should have picked up a FS.

Hated the RB out of Florida as a pick.

Hopefully Little turns in Jordan Gross and Burns into Lamar Lathon.

If that happens I'll be thrilled.

We didn't "pay" or "overpay" for Grier, we had the 100th pick and we used it on a guy many believe is a top-2 QB in the draft. You need to like, stop posting bad takes or something

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

i already told you to stop smearing. link the post you're referencing.

lol yeah i will hope that grier plays at a hall of fame level. that's the only way this team stays afloat in the absence of cam. there's of course no reason to believe he is a hall of fame talent but sure, i will hope for that. in reality, the best case scenario for this team is that he never sees the field. that's negative value for a 3rd round pick.

It's actually not. Backup at the most important position on the field is something I have no trouble using a 3rd round pick for, or higher. And if the pinnacle of his career is being a solid backup, where's the problem with that?

As mentioned, the path of least resistance to a winning season is Cam Newton being healthy. I'm not sure that's going to happen though. More to the point, the Panthers aren't certain it's going to happen. They are, in fact, uncertain enough that they decided to use a third round pick on a quarterback just in case.

How good is Grier going to be? as someone who watched a lot of his college career oh, I think he's going to be pretty good. But regardless of what I think, two guys with way better credentials for evaluating quarterbacks than I have also think he's going to be pretty good. Those guys are the reason he's a Panther.

When Cam Newton was picked, I hoped i was wrong about him. Happy to say I was.

We'll all be better off if you and others are wrong about Grier as well.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Carl Spackler said:

We didn't "pay" or "overpay" for Grier, we had the 100th pick and we used it on a guy many believe is a top-2 QB in the draft. You need to like, stop posting bad takes or something

Said it earlier: I'm pretty convinced that we would have used the #77 pick on him had we not traded it away.

[MasterAwesome]

36 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

i already told you to stop smearing. link the post you're referencing.

lol yeah i will hope that grier plays at a hall of fame level. that's the only way this team stays afloat in the absence of cam. there's of course no reason to believe he is a hall of fame talent but sure, i will hope for that. in reality, the best case scenario for this team is that he never sees the field. that's negative value for a 3rd round pick.

Since when do we assign value based on best case scenarios? Best case scenario is that we score on every drive. Does that mean we’re wasting a roster spot on a punter? Best case scenario is that our starters stay healthy and play every snap of every season. Does that mean backups are literally worthless? Or even potentially have “negative value”? This is a pretty naive outlook.

[Carl Spackler]

7 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

will grier is not prepared to step in and keep this team competitive and as history indicates he likely will never be prepared to do so. if anyone in the league thought that he could, he would have been picked in the top half of the first round.

What is this "history" of which you speak? Conjecture based on third-round picks who aren't Will Grier, didn't go to the Panthers and don't have the team around him?

Taking a mighty swing there with the "he won't be good because he wasn't a first-round pick" logic

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

i didn't say "backups are literally worthless" or that they have "negative value"

i said that using a 3rd round pick on a player that you hope never plays a down for your team is negative value because it quite clearly is. the gap between cam newton and "solid backup" is wider than any other player on this roster, bar none. no player on this team is harder to replace than cam and you could legitimately argue that no player in the nfl means more to his team than cam. it literally doesn't matter who is backup is because the end result is the same. 0% chance of winning a super bowl without him. value is in betting he stays healthy and adding another piece that can contribute to this roster. negative value is wasting your 3rd highest pick on a guy who will only play significant minutes if the season is already lost.

0% without him? I mean I am a Cam fanboy but come on.  We should of won a Super Bowl w/ Jake Freaking Delhomme.  

at this point based on Cam's health and future concerns, not at least adding some talent behind him is negligent.