Panthers had Grier ahead of Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, TheMaulClaw said:

He wasnt brought into compete with Cam....this year. After this season watch out.

The only way that competition even happens is if Cam is unable to play. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The only way that competition even happens is if Cam is unable to play. 

Re-signing Newton is not a given, especially with his shoulder issues.

I know some folks assume we're just gonna hand him a blank check or franchise him, but there's no guarantee either of those things happens.

A scenario where Grier gets groomed for a couple of years and steps in when Newton's contract runs out is a real possibility .

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Re-signing Newton is not a given, especially with his shoulder issues.

 I know some folks assume we're just gonna hand him a blank check or franchise him, but there's no guarantee either of those things happens.

 A scenario where Grier gets groomed for a couple of years and steps in when Newton's contract runs out is a real possibility .

Well, if that happens I suspect we will get to see a whole lot of losing until we improve upon that position. At least you will get your wish of a new GM and Head Coach, however. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, if that happens I suspect we will get to see a whole lot of losing until we improve upon that position. At least you will get your wish of a new GM and Head Coach, however. 

You're assuming Grier isn't going to be very good?

[Carl Spackler]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're assuming Grier isn't going to be very good?

Most people here base their predictions on what they want to happen, so yes, that's the likely assumption.

[raz]

that's best case scenario.  send cam packing before his next payday and have will for a few yrs on a rookie deal. a fanbase that needs to fill the stands can pay cam and we can compete.   grier's gotta be really good though.  it's a longshot but maybe

[mc52beast]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:19 PM, YETI said:

He should’ve went at 16 then if that was true. Bunch of false report

It’s called grading players. Grier wasn’t graded as high as Burns. It’s not rocket science 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Carl Spackler said:

Most people here base their predictions on what they want to happen, so yes, that's the likely assumption.

I get that, but regardless of what happens with Cam Newton, I question what benefit there is to the Panthers in Grier not being very good.

The only people that benefit from that are ones who want to say "I told you so".

[kungfoodude]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're assuming Grier isn't going to be very good?

Not as an NFL starter, no. My evaluation on him was that his ceiling is probably of a journeyman 2nd or 3rd string QB and not a franchise QB.

That doesn't mean I am actively wishing him poorly, just that my expectations are pretty low.

[kungfoodude]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I get that, but regardless of what happens with Cam Newton, I question what benefit there is to the Panthers in Grier not being very good.

The only people that benefit from that are ones who want to say "I told you so".

It would be the same question as the benefit to the Panthers of Cam not getting a new deal or his career being ruined by injuries, which some seem to gleefully be wishing for. I guess we forgot pretty quickly how long it took us to get a franchise QB in the first place, or maybe it is the younger fans who didn't see our failed attempts at getting one. 

Of the very minimal positives, I supposed losing a lot does put you in the best position for being able to try to draft a new franchise QB. That's a place we will probably be eventually, even if Cam does finish his career in Carolina.

[Mr. Scot]

58 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It would be the same question as the benefit to the Panthers of Cam not getting a new deal or his career being ruined by injuries, which some seem to gleefully be wishing for. I guess we forgot pretty quickly how long it took us to get a franchise QB in the first place, or maybe it is the younger fans who didn't see our failed attempts at getting one. 

Of the very minimal positives, I supposed losing a lot does put you in the best position for being able to try to draft a new franchise QB. That's a place we will probably be eventually, even if Cam does finish his career in Carolina.

If there's been "gleeful celebration" of Newton's problems, I've missed it. For my own part, I've acknowledged the possibility and analyzed how and why I hold Ron Rivera primarily responsible.

As to us taking a long time to find a franchise quarterback, that's probably directly attributable to the fact that we weren't looking for one.

John Fox didn't believe in the "franchise quarterback" model. He wanted a defense centered team and preferred a guy like Jake Delhomme in the driver's seat of the offense.

Prior to that, you had Seifert who just needed a West Coast style game manager and Capers who believed Kerry Collins was gonna be the guy. And to be fair, Collins definitely had that potential until the day he freaked out and quit on the team.

So while I agree it took a long time to find an actual franchise quarterback, the truth is that through the span of several years and the last two coaches, we weren't really trying to get one.

It's not like we tried and failed. Outside of Collins, we just didn't try.

[Mr. Scot]

Occurs to me I did neglect to mention that time we tried to get Peyton Manning, but that was different 

[trueblade]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not like we tried and failed. Outside of Collins, we just didn't try.

There are a litany of teams who tried and failed for years to land a franchise guy. There just aren't 32 of them walking the planet. Seattle just gave Russel Wilson all the monies because they didn't want to go back to the Charlie Whitehurst/Matt Flynn days. Cleveland before Mayfield. Arizona after Warner.

I think too there's something analogous to the the idea of evaluating a GM/Coach combination together to evaluating a Coach/QB together (Fisher/Goff versus McVay/Goff). So it's not only finding the right guy, but matching him with the right staff.

[Mr. Scot]

15 minutes ago, trueblade said:

There are a litany of teams who tried and failed for years to land a franchise guy. There just aren't 32 of them walking the planet. Seattle just gave Russel Wilson all the monies because they didn't want to go back to the Charlie Whithurt/Matt Flynn days. Cleveland before Mayfield. Arizona after Warner.

I think too there's something analogous to the the idea of evaluating a GM/Coach combination together to evaluating a Coach/QB together (Fisher/Goff versus McVay/Goff). So it's not only finding the right guy, but matching him with the right staff.

I'd agree with that. Newton / Chudzinski wasn't the same as Newton / Shula, and I'd say both are inferior to Newton / Turner. The question there though is how much longer does that combo have?

And I grant that other teams have tried and failed to get a franchise QB (Broncos and Cutler, for example) but I was commenting only on the Panthers history.