Panthers had Grier ahead of Kyler Murray and Daniel Jones

[45catfan]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

I disagree. A reasons why; backup QB can be a top 5 position value in some peoples mind. Pats, Green bay, and Pittsburgh have all spent day 1/2 draft picks on QBs while having one playing. Market for QB is insane, so is the backup. Rookie contracts are 4 years locked cheap compared. Plus the guy is in your system and knows to better most times than a street QB. You can trade the backup for picks and if he signs else where, a juicy comp pick is waiting in return.

And if your starter gets injured while grooming this trade bait for down the road, the current season is toast.  Juicy comp picks are not what keeps people employed in the NFL, actual wins and loses do.  While this backup QB is sitting on the bench apparently accruing trade value, an actual player that could be on the field got passed up like a LT, DE or CB.  Yeah, the Packers got lucky with Rogers falling to the end of the first round, but Favre was on an iron man streak at the time too.  The Packers played rolled the dice and won.  I personally wouldn't use the exception as the rule.

[Basbear]

26 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

And if your starter gets injured while grooming this trade bait for down the road, the current season is toast.  Juicy comp picks are not what keeps people employed in the NFL, actual wins and loses do.  While this backup QB is sitting on the bench apparently accruing trade value, an actual player that could be on the field got passed up like a LT, DE or CB.  Yeah, the Packers got lucky with Rogers falling to the end of the first round, but Favre was on an iron man streak at the time too.  The Packers played rolled the dice and won.  I personally wouldn't use the exception as the rule.

Green bay drafted Brett Hundley and Traded for a former second in DeShone Kizer, its not exception. You also leftd out Pats spending a 2 on JimmyG and 3 on Ryan Mallat and a 3 on Jacboy Brisset. Pitt drafted Ruldoph in the 3rd and dobbs in the early 4th. I could even add KC and ANY Andy Reid(one of the highest win% coach) team to this. Just like the Andy Reid, the Pats have got draft picks and other Players form the QBs. Those three teams have HOF QBs and had some of the most success in the last 15 years. They each spent early draft picks(sometime in back-to-back years) on a QB while the current QB is in the prime. 

 Panthers where the only team in the nfl not to spend a draft pick on a QB since 2011. The only team. A 3rd comp (early 4th by the numbers) on a guy the team all like is great insurance in case of _______ happens. Just recently Foles won the dang on Superbowl and he was a backup QB. 

O did I fail to mention Ton brady was a backup QB and won the the superbowl. If its the most important spot(BY FAR) then spending some draft picks should be fine, just look at winners and what they have/continue to do so. 

[45catfan]

26 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Green bay drafted Brett Hundley and Traded for a former second in DeShone Kizer, its not exception. You also leftd out Pats spending a 2 on JimmyG and 3 on Ryan Mallat and a 3 on Jacboy Brisset. Pitt drafted Ruldoph in the 3rd and dobbs in the early 4th. I could even add KC and ANY Andy Reid(one of the highest win% coach) team to this. Just like the Andy Reid, the Pats have got draft picks and other Players form the QBs. Those three teams have HOF QBs and had some of the most success in the last 15 years. They each spent early draft picks(sometime in back-to-back years) on a QB while the current QB is in the prime. 

 Panthers where the only team in the nfl not to spend a draft pick on a QB since 2011. The only team. A 3rd comp (early 4th by the numbers) on a guy the team all like is great insurance in case of _______ happens. Just recently Foles won the dang on Superbowl and he was a backup QB. 

O did I fail to mention Ton brady was a backup QB and won the the superbowl. If its the most important spot(BY FAR) then spending some draft picks should be fine, just look at winners and what they have/continue to do so. 

^^^That's the very reason I value seasoned veteran QBs over developmental trade bait.  The Pats turn all kinds of players into trade bait, it's not exclusive to their QBs and considering they have double digit draft picks every year, burning a 3rd rounder on a QB every so often isn't a big loss.  With Brady, they can consider taking a QB for trade bait...they have the luxury to do so.  The Steelers are looking for an heir apparent, I seriously doubt they trade either of those two guys.  As I stated in the case of looking for a starter, it is obviously acceptable to draft a QB early.  Drafting them knowing they are going to hold a clipboard for their rookie contract, nah, I'll pass.  Cam's our starter and unless he becomes damaged goods or can't get a new contract, Greir will never see game action in a Panthers uniform beyond the month of August.

[SBiii]

5 hours ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Because the preseason is absolutely pointless.

You can’t gauge a guys talent by his play against guys who may not even be in the NFL.

Additionally, grading any player after a few preseason games is silly.

Doing so gets you into the thought process where players like Jimmy G are actually worth 2nd round picks.

 

Again, the backdrop of the original question was --- the preseason.  Feel free to follow along....

[Benotheking]

12 hours ago, Basbear said:

I disagree. A reasons why; backup QB can be a top 5 position value in some peoples mind. Pats, Green bay, and Pittsburgh have all spent day 1/2 draft picks on QBs while having one playing. Market for QB is insane, so is the backup. Rookie contracts are 4 years locked cheap compared. Plus the guy is in your system and knows to better most times than a street QB. You can trade the backup for picks and if he signs else where, a juicy comp pick is waiting in return.

The QB that was drafted by those teams sucked except Jimmy Garoppolo and all of them didn't even lasted long with their original team. New England basically got the same value for Jimmy Garoppolo. You can make the case they were wasted picks. When was the  last time a team got a juice comp from a back-up QB ?

[Basbear]

@45catfan I dont think you want to use Nick, cause he was drafted in the third while Andy had either Mcrib or Vick..... If you wanted Josh Mcrown, you do know he was paid 10 million last year? If youre able to land a top backup youz got to pay, most dont want to even come where you have a QB like Cam. I when I say most, I mean none. 

Steelers where looking to trade Dobbs as recent as last year, some here wanted the panthers to throw a fifth for him. 

You never know what the future holds, in regards to your " holding clipboard comment". Tom brady was holding the clipboard, before he replaced Drew Bledsoe mid-season on route to winning the superbowl. Plus since Luke is the MLB you shouldnt draft a MLB either correct?, but no one knows the future. I want Cam here winning superbowls just like every sane fan, but if he wants 50 million per year and 200 million signing bonus for his next contract. It would be wise to already have a cheap QB two year into your system as insurance. 

Lastly for the record I want a vet as backup too, but understand theres plenty of high football IQ reasons to draft one/few even when you got one in their prime. Honestly it may have helped/woke Cam some cause I doubt two undrafted QBs feel like a threat.  

[Basbear]

9 hours ago, Benotheking said:

The QB that was drafted by those teams sucked except Jimmy Garoppolo and all of them didn't even lasted long with their original team. New England basically got the same value for Jimmy Garoppolo. You can make the case they were wasted picks. When was the  last time a team got a juice comp from a back-up QB ?

The last time off the top of my head was Brock Osweiler (he was a late 2nd, i think)was a 3rd comp. That statement was to say " The worse case is a 3rd comp ". You draft a QB in 3rd, develop him and some team gives him the moon, so at worst you get a 3rd comp. Matt Cassell was traded for second and had a long nfl career, I believe hes still playing for the falcons.

 Plus its doesnt matter if they suck, if some team wants to give you a 2 for AJ freeley, JimmyG, Kevin Klob or Matt Cassell why not? Doug Johnson was traded for a 1st if I remember correct. Brent Farve was traded for 1st, one year after he was drafted in the 2nd. Those backup QBs were traded instead of waiting for 3rd comp, teams know about this and at times make a trade cause you have to wait one year for comps.  

[YoungPanthers89]

ryan finley better

[MillionDollarCam]

17 hours ago, SBiii said:

Again, the backdrop of the original question was --- the preseason.  Feel free to follow along....

And my original statement was obviously in regards to their future careers, not their first two scrimmages against Isothermal Community College players....

Feel free to get hooked on phonics.

[Benotheking]

2 hours ago, Basbear said:

The last time off the top of my head was Brock Osweiler (he was a late 2nd, i think)was a 3rd comp. That statement was to say " The worse case is a 3rd comp ". You draft a QB in 3rd, develop him and some team gives him the moon, so at worst you get a 3rd comp. Matt Cassell was traded for second and had a long nfl career, I believe hes still playing for the falcons.

 Plus its doesnt matter if they suck, if some team wants to give you a 2 for AJ freeley, JimmyG, Kevin Klob or Matt Cassell why not? Doug Johnson was traded for a 1st if I remember correct. Brent Farve was traded for 1st, one year after he was drafted in the 2nd. Those backup QBs were traded instead of waiting for 3rd comp, teams know about this and at times make a trade cause you have to wait one year for comps.  

My point was that it doesn't happen often. Most of the time the QB net way less value or nothing so thinking "oh let's take a guy in the 3rd and then hopefully he nets the moon" is something I can't get behind especially if there are players at different position that can help more. This team have glaring holes and can use more talent at other position. 

Giving how the history of QB have worked out I don't think that's a smart investment. I would rather sign a vet or draft a 3rd day QB then waste it on a 1st, 2nd ,3rd round QB in hopes of netting equal value or more if the QB doesn't work out. 

[Basbear]

52 minutes ago, Benotheking said:

My point was that it doesn't happen often. Most of the time the QB net way less value or nothing so thinking "oh let's take a guy in the 3rd and then hopefully he nets the moon" is something I can't get behind especially if there are players at different position that can help more. This team have glaring holes and can use more talent at other position. 

Giving how the history of QB have worked out I don't think that's a smart investment. I would rather sign a vet or draft a 3rd day QB then waste it on a 1st, 2nd ,3rd round QB in hopes of netting equal value or more if the QB doesn't work out. 

All Ill add is the success of finding any good players in the mid-rounds is very low, including QBs. Just look at the panthers- Defense is full of 1s and lowest is a 2(taking Burns over Mario to help my point...)Offense again full of 1s, with a couple 2s, 3 and two undrafted. 

BUT man o' man if you hit on a QB in any round, its by far the most value thing in all of football. You could argue seagulls and blowboys where franchise saving picks. I will agree, its much harder to find a QB, just by simple numbers and position flex. Still see no issue at occasionally spending a mid-rounder on the most value spot in all of sports. Even with the slim chance its a hit, they all are at that point.   

[SBiii]

5 hours ago, MillionDollarCam said:

And my original statement was obviously in regards to their future careers, not their first two scrimmages against Isothermal Community College players....

Feel free to get hooked on phonics.

Actually ur statement was how bad he looked against UNC and WF...

...he's looked fantastic against professional football players fighting for a job in the NFL.

Why are you so down on #8?

[CPcavedweller]

Lock has bust written all over him. He can't read defenses, he can't read his offense, he can't get the play call, he can't hit his guys in stride, he can't throw people open, and to do all of this it will take a solid 3 years of sitting. 

I have been so underwhelmed with him and his ability coming into the league, including Fall Camp and Preseason that I think he should've had a 4th round grade on him. Ryan Finley appears to be better with far more upside than Lock and appeared that way while in college and now during their time as a pro.

John Elway needs to step out of the room when it comes to QB's because he has some existential weakness in evaluating that position. 

[Ricky Spanish]

18 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Lock has bust written all over him. He can't read defenses, he can't read his offense, he can't get the play call, he can't hit his guys in stride, he can't throw people open, and to do all of this it will take a solid 3 years of sitting. 

I have been so underwhelmed with him and his ability coming into the league, including Fall Camp and Preseason that I think he should've had a 4th round grade on him. Ryan Finley appears to be better with far more upside than Lock and appeared that way while in college and now during their time as a pro.

John Elway needs to step out of the room when it comes to QB's because he has some existential weakness in evaluating that position. 

Read a theory that he's great at identifying Defensive talent because that's what he was constantly looking at as a QB - Reading defenses and scheming against them, being aware of their weaknesses, etc. Makes sense if you think of it that way. He might know how to be a successful, NFL QB, but doesn't really notice the little things in QB prospects because he never had to identify it from the outside.