LMFAO.... Oh, Falcons, this is amazing.

[Iron Saint]

On 6/1/2019 at 8:49 PM, rbsponsel52 said:

At least Falcons don't play dirty like Aints do.

LOLOL, I know you're not talking about playing dirty when Thomas Davis was in a Panthers uniform for 14 years.

On 6/2/2019 at 1:54 AM, pepaw said:

Anyone who watched the 09 NFC Championship game("Give me my money"), listened to the 2011 Greg Williams tape, or just watched the 09-11 Saints understands there was a pay to injure program.  To try to gray the waters and say it was for performance is disingenuous and a waste of everyone's time.

You mean the "give me my money" quote that the League attributed to Hargrove (with absolute certainty) before suspending him for 8 games and then backed off that view not even 4 months later? They claimed it was Hargrove with certainty despite the fact that Hargrove didn't even make the play in question (a combined QB hit on Favre by Ayodele and McCray that led to a Vilma INT). 

And if "locker room coach speak" is an indication to intent, then every high school football program across the country would be shut down. I've heard high school coaches say far worse.

Let me ask you a question though, watch this video below and tell me what you see (I promise it's not the whole game I want you to watch, just one play at the beginning of the 4th quarter)...

On that play the video starts on, do you see Saints players a.) deliberately going out of their way to target and hit Favre after Harvin fumbles, or b.) see Saints players all chasing after the ball while paying Favre little to no mind at all, with the exception of when Favre is trying to pick the ball up at 1:22:19?

If there was a "pay-to-injure" scheme like the League (and everyone that didn't pay attention to the development of the story outside of when it broke) alleged there was, every single Saints player on the field would've absolutely creamed Favre on this play after Harvin fumbled to collect that "bounty".

Hell, at 1:22:17, Greer and Ellis both run up and are standing directly behind Favre, both having a free shot at smoking an unknowing Favre to knock him out the game... but they don't? Ellis barely nudges him out the way and they all lunge for the ball.

Additionally, the League maintains there was a pay-to-injure scheme by the Saints that year (and the two subsequent seasons), yet they openly have the entire video of a game where they claim countless heinous acts were committed still on their verified YouTube channel and are collecting the revenue from it's monetization?

bUt ThE iNtEgRiTy oF tHe sHiELd!

On 6/2/2019 at 7:24 AM, bandu said:

Sean Payton in reference to bountygate...."hey it isn't the idea that this thing DIDN'T HAPPEN it's the idea that it continued for three years."..

then you have the nerve to come on this forum & say someone is hurling insults at you? when in FACT you are the one adding insult to injury...SMDH

If what the League claimed (a pay-to-INJURE system) happened for 3 years, then why doesn't the injury data back it up?

And I fail to see where I've insulted anyone, I'm not even complaining of being insulted. I was merely stating that if someone's only recourse during debate is to hurl insults then their argument is likely flimsier than the League's supposed "evidence".

On 6/2/2019 at 8:30 AM, Sasquatch said:

So your only defense for the Saints actions is semantics? Gotcha. 

So, what would be the reason for fining any bone jarring hits?

If you actually followed the development of the storyline, you'd know that plays that were flagged and/or fined weren't eligible for payouts from the pay-for-performance system.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

23 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

LOLOL, I know you're not talking about playing dirty when Thomas Davis was in a Panthers uniform for 14 years.

You mean the "give me my money" quote that the League attributed to Hargrove (with absolute certainty) before suspending him for 8 games and then backed off that view not even 4 months later? They claimed it was Hargrove with certainty despite the fact that Hargrove didn't even make the play in question (a combined QB hit on Favre by Ayodele and McCray that led to a Vilma INT). 

And if "locker room coach speak" is an indication to intent, then every high school football program across the country would be shut down. I've heard high school coaches say far worse.

Let me ask you a question though, watch this video below and tell me what you see (I promise it's not the whole game I want you to watch, just one play at the beginning of the 4th quarter)...

On that play the video starts on, do you see Saints players a.) deliberately going out of their way to target and hit Favre after Harvin fumbles, or b.) see Saints players all chasing after the ball while paying Favre little to no mind at all, with the exception of when Favre is trying to pick the ball up at 1:22:19?

If there was a "pay-to-injure" scheme like the League (and everyone that didn't pay attention to the development of the story outside of when it broke) alleged there was, every single Saints player on the field would've absolutely creamed Favre on this play after Harvin fumbled to collect that "bounty".

Hell, at 1:22:17, Greer and Ellis both run up and are standing directly behind Favre, both having a free shot at smoking an unknowing Favre to knock him out the game... but they don't? Ellis barely nudges him out the way and they all lunge for the ball.

Additionally, the League maintains there was a pay-to-injure scheme by the Saints that year (and the two subsequent seasons), yet they openly have the entire video of a game where they claim countless heinous acts were committed still on their verified YouTube channel and are collecting the revenue from it's monetization?

bUt ThE iNtEgRiTy oF tHe sHiELd!

If what the League claimed (a pay-to-INJURE system) happened for 3 years, then why doesn't the injury data back it up?

And I fail to see where I've insulted anyone, I'm not even complaining of being insulted. I was merely stating that if someone's only recourse during debate is to hurl insults then their argument is likely flimsier than the League's supposed "evidence".

If you actually followed the development of the storyline, you'd know that plays that were flagged and/or fined weren't eligible for payouts from the pay-for-performance system.

The facts have been presented.

[Iron Saint]

1 hour ago, rbsponsel52 said:

The facts have been presented.

Top-Left: After the INT, Warner became a defender and had no protections as a QB, McCray didn't lead with his helmet, nor did he target Warner's head or neck.

Bottom-Left: Favre had just released the ball and Sharper hit him without without having to take additional steps to hit him late, he also didn't lead with the helmet or target Favre's head or neck.

Bottom-Right: I don't recall seeing that play before, it looks like the same game as the GIF above it (2011, Week 5); do you have a time stamp of when it happened in the game? I'd definitely like to look at it more.

Top-Right: Certainly uncalled for and rightly flagged and subsequently fined, however Smith pulled up before getting to the endzone and Harper hit him within one step then so it'd not like it's out of the ordinary; Harper also wasn't suspended in the original sanctions and this game wasn't the one the League was alleging a "bounty" occurred, it was the Week 17 game in New Orleans. That also reminds me, still no one has explained to me why would there need to be a bounty on a rookie QB that had a 6-9 starting record and threw 21 TD's and 17 INT's that year.

The two against y'all just boils down to the chippiness of our division rivalry. Examples...

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

saints defense was dirty as hell during the greg williams days, not as bad as prime LOB but still dirtier than a mcdonalds in detroit

[Iron Saint]

5 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

saints defense was dirty as hell during the greg williams days, not as bad as prime LOB but still dirtier than a mcdonalds in detroit

Yet our defense was only flagged 2 more times than y'all defense was between 2009 and 2011 (110 to 108).

2009 Penalty Statistics - we were 13th in total defensive penalties (36), y'all were 18th (32)

2010 Penalty Statistics - we were 13th in total defensive penalties (32), y'all were 8th (41)

2011 Penalty Statistics - we were 11th in total defensive penalties (42), y'all were 16th (35)

I'd say we were middle of the pack, wouldn't you? However, if we were dirty then y'all must've been dirty too. Especially considering our defense caused significantly fewer injuries to opposing offensive players and we never were in the top-10 defensively for penalties at least.

[Pup McBarky]

8 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

The two against y'all just boils down to the chippiness of our division rivalry

Good move...attempting to justify bountygate. That'll play well here. 

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

8 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

Top-Left: After the INT, Warner became a defender and had no protections as a QB, McCray didn't lead with his helmet, nor did he target Warner's head or neck. Hit should have been flagged big time for unnecessary roughness on a defenseless player.

Bottom-Left: Favre had just released the ball and Sharper hit him without without having to take additional steps to hit him late, he also didn't lead with the helmet or target Favre's head or neck. Same as above.

Bottom-Right: I don't recall seeing that play before, it looks like the same game as the GIF above it (2011, Week 5); do you have a time stamp of when it happened in the game? I'd definitely like to look at it more. Steve Smith should have knocked out that player that made the dirty hit on him.

Top-Right: Certainly uncalled for and rightly flagged and subsequently fined, however Smith pulled up before getting to the endzone and Harper hit him within one step then so it'd not like it's out of the ordinary; Harper also wasn't suspended in the original sanctions and this game wasn't the one the League was alleging a "bounty" occurred, it was the Week 17 game in New Orleans. That also reminds me, still no one has explained to me why would there need to be a bounty on a rookie QB that had a 6-9 starting record and threw 21 TD's and 17 INT's that year. SP and GW had to use 2 players to go after Steve Smith's leg. One to push his back and other to low hit his leg causing it to bend awkwardly trying to purposely and permanently take him out for rest of season.

 

 

 

 

[Iron Saint]

9 hours ago, Pup McBarky said:

Good move...attempting to justify bountygate. That'll play well here. 

You were saying, champ?

9 hours ago, rbsponsel52 said:

A. Hit should have been flagged big time for unnecessary roughness on a defenseless player.

B. Same as above.

C. Steve Smith should have knocked out that player that made the dirty hit on him.

D. SP and GW had to use 2 players to go after Steve Smith's leg. One to push his back and other to low hit his leg causing it to bend awkwardly trying to purposely and permanently take him out for rest of season.

A. He wasn't defenseless, what part of that is so hard to understand? The instant Will Smith caught the interception, Warner became a defender and had no rule protections as a QB in the pocket. He was even trying to go down and make the tackle (as a defender would). The only reason you think it deserved to be flagged is because it can be deemed a crackback block. However, what you are forgetting is crackback blocks were legal in 2009 and remained legal for another 7 years until they were banned before the 2017 season.

B. Not the same as above, not even close. Favre DID have QB protections as he was still in the pocket and had just thrown a pass, however as I stated above, Sharper hit him within one step of Favre releasing the ball which is also legal. Here, I'll quote you the section from the NFL Rulebook and I'll even link it right here, page 49-50 of the rulebook but page 56-57 in that PDF document.

Quote

ARTICLE 9. ROUGHING THE PASSER.

Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against a player who is in a passing posture (i.e. before, during, or after a pass) which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles:49Rule 12, Section 2

(a) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment,a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground)

C. I wouldn't blame him one bit if he had. The melee that ensued was more than justified for the act that caused it. It was a blatantly late hit, and as I said earlier, was properly flagged as unnecessary roughness and Harper was justly fined for it.

D. Payton left the defense to their own devices, it was a main point in Gregg Williams being hired here. I'd still like to check out that play the GIF originated from if you can find out when it is. I really don't feel like rewatching that whole game to find one play.

[Pup McBarky]

1 hour ago, Iron Saint said:

You were saying, champ?

Apparently, stuff that you're too dense to comprehend.

[Iron Saint]

Just now, Pup McBarky said:

Apparently, stuff that you're too dense to comprehend.

The only denseness in this discussion are your last two posts.

You reply to me saying that "justifying" an alleged "pay-to-injure" scheme won't go over well here to which I responded with an archived thread from this very board where a former Panthers player admitted y'all had a bounty on Favre in a playoff game to which posters then begin splitting hairs over "oH tHEir'S wAs WoRsE bEcAuSe ThE cOaChEs WeRe iNvOLvEd, oUrs WaS pLaYeRs OnLy" while still to this day simultaneously maintain the disillusion that there was a "pay-to-injure" scheme in New Orleans despite there not only being any evidence proving its existence, but the injury data, the penalty data of our defense, and the own words of the players that were allegedly targeted by said system, all directly disprove it.

So which is it? Are "pay-to-injure" schemes bad? Or they're only bad when they're done by teams not wearing Carolina blue?

[uncfan888]

So is this guy our new resident saints fan? Where is @saints4lifeagain? Come back bruh 

[Ja Rhule]

The fug is a Saints fan doing here?   Drew Brees is about to be 41...  I’d be very careful about showing face anywhere...  or did they forget what their name was before Drew Brees arrived?

[Iron Saint]

10 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

So is this guy our new resident saints fan? Where is @saints4lifeagain? Come back bruh 

You... You... You don't... like me?

[Iron Saint]

1 minute ago, ARSEN said:

The fug is a Saints fan doing here?   Drew Brees is about to be 41...  I’d be very careful about showing face anywhere...  or did they forget what their name was before Drew Brees arrived?

Reading mostly, occasionally posting though.

And well I should get my posts in before we suck then, right?

Also, pretty sure we've been named the Saints since November 1st, 1966... (November 1st is All Saints Day, just in case you didn't know).