Jourdan Rodrigue on Panthers/Sweat and her prediction of who we draft at 16

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

Ok. I'm not totally convinced we will be lining up in 3-4 as often as some think. We will still be running a lot of 4-3 AND nickle which are 4 man fronts. Additionally, Wilkins has never played a 5 technique in 3-4, so I'm not sure how he's as good a fit as anyone in the draft. Wilkins is a 3 technique DT or nose. I brought up Gary because he played in 5 technique at Michigan. 

I don't feel I have any comprehension issues lol. DE (4-3 end or edge rusher) and OT are bigger needs, period. Of course we can get better at DT, but we can only have 53 players on the roster! We are not moving on from Short and Poe in the same year, that would not make much sense. We can't protect or get to the damn quarterback. Those issued need to be addressed first!

 This isn’t college. And Gary being mid-used as a full-time 3-4 was part of the problem. NFL 3-4 DEs more resemble KK and 4-3 3 techs. In 4-3 fronts, he played DT, NT, and SDE for years. So what scheme is going to cost him snaps? 

 

   If the option is to throw away an extra 24M to those two, it sure makes a lot of sense(and dollars) to get rid of them. Drafting Wilkins could mean cutting Poe and saving 6M this year. Another advantage. 

  And when we take the next LT bust, what happens then? Which of those prospects is better than Moton at LT right now. How many snaps are they playing if Moton shows he can do the job? I agree with DE need is even bigger. But I don’t see an even average NFL LT in this draft and have said so from the start. That’s the main reason I don’t want a LT. Take the faller in a great DE/DL class, or a “project LT” or someone who may(or may not) be able to play the position.  If they have to take one, trade back. 

[Toomers]

20 minutes ago, Michaelinraleigh said:

And why would Gary get Luke Killed?

He's a 4-3 5 technique. He doesn't keep guards off Luke.

Because he was brought up as an example of the standard 3-4 DE in the NFL. A position that is responsible for keeping the LBs clean. Truth is he’s too light right now, and it would be a misuse of his skill set. Except obvious passing situations where he would be an asset there. 

   I thing he’s much better suited for 4-3 SDE. But that wasn’t the discussion. I did say him playing 3-4 DE was part of the problem. So which part of that isn’t reasonable? What the issue? 

  

  

[USC/panthers_11]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I don't think you want any rookie being a day one starter. They are green, don't have great technique and make mistakes. Look at our last several drafts. Who was picked in the first round and were a day 1 starter for the Panthers?

 

Moore? No

McCaffrey? No

Butler? No

Shaq? No

The last one was Star. 

The idea of your number 1 pick being a day one starter is actually not that frequent and that is a good thing ... Contributor yes but starter no.  That means you have big holes and limited talent so the rookie is automatically your best option

I should've said day 1 contributor and eventual starter. Obviously expectations differ and vary from early to late first round picks.

My key point was I don't see a 1st round DT having the kind of impact a DE/edge rusher or LT would have.

[USC/panthers_11]

2 hours ago, Toomers said:

 This isn’t college. And Gary being mid-used as a full-time 3-4 was part of the problem. NFL 3-4 DEs more resemble KK and 4-3 3 techs. In 4-3 fronts, he played DT, NT, and SDE for years. So what scheme is going to cost him snaps? 

 

   If the option is to throw away an extra 24M to those two, it sure makes a lot of sense(and dollars) to get rid of them. Drafting Wilkins could mean cutting Poe and saving 6M this year. Another advantage. 

  And when we take the next LT bust, what happens then? Which of those prospects is better than Moton at LT right now. How many snaps are they playing if Moton shows he can do the job? I agree with DE need is even bigger. But I don’t see an even average NFL LT in this draft and have said so from the start. That’s the main reason I don’t want a LT. Take the faller in a great DE/DL class, or a “project LT” or someone who may(or may not) be able to play the position.  If they have to take one, trade back. 

Its hard for me to answer your first question without knowing how much 3-4 we will actually run. 3-4 5 techniques, although usually bigger than 4-3 ends, are typically a little smaller than 3 techniques. I don't see them releasing Poe prior to the 2019 seaon. He is still an above average player who has made 2 pro bowls and was a high 1st round pick himself (and still under 30). Let's see how he plays this year when hopefully our DE/pass rushing situation isn't complete garbage like last season. 

Every prospect who hasn't played an NFL snap has a chance to be a bust, and no one really knows how good Moton can be a LT because we haven't seen him play there enough at the NFL level to make an accurate assessment. I would be thrilled to get Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard. You wouldn't? I think our OL still needs more improvement than DT. I think Poe, Short, Love, and Butler should be a pretty good 4 man rotation at DT. 

[panthers55]

33 minutes ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

I should've said day 1 contributor and eventual starter. Obviously expectations differ and vary from early to late first round picks.

My key point was I don't see a 1st round DT having the kind of impact a DE/edge rusher or LT would have.

I don't see a LT or edge rusher that is a day 1 starter either. If we were going for day 1 starter then look at a safety/corner where we could get one of the best in the first or someone like Devin White or Ben Burr-Kirvin who could take over for Thomas Davis and would be an upgrade to Shaq.

[TheSpecialJuan]

7 hours ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

Answer: I think the Panthers’ pick will either be Florida State defensive end Brian Burns, Oklahoma offensive lineman Cody Ford, or Clemsondefensive tackle Christian Wilkins.

I would be fine with any of these 3. 

Yup

[GoobyPls]

Wilkinson? Barf

 

 

 

[Toomers]

3 hours ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

Its hard for me to answer your first question without knowing how much 3-4 we will actually run. 3-4 5 techniques, although usually bigger than 4-3 ends, are typically a little smaller than 3 techniques. I don't see them releasing Poe prior to the 2019 seaon. He is still an above average player who has made 2 pro bowls and was a high 1st round pick himself (and still under 30). Let's see how he plays this year when hopefully our DE/pass rushing situation isn't complete garbage like last season. 

Every prospect who hasn't played an NFL snap has a chance to be a bust, and no one really knows how good Moton can be a LT because we haven't seen him play there enough at the NFL level to make an accurate assessment. I would be thrilled to get Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard. You wouldn't? I think our OL still needs more improvement than DT. I think Poe, Short, Love, and Butler should be a pretty good 4 man rotation at DT. 

Why? No scheme should matter for Wilkins. He’s played  everywhere in a 4-3. And he should be even better as a 3-4. They are much closer to 4-3 3tech than an 277 lb. player who isn’t a good fit. Yet he was your standard for the position. 

  We will not be keeping Poe at a 13.3M cap hit next year. He hasn’t made a Pro Bowl in five years. He’s not worth the 9.3M this year. And now we can’t even dump him after the draft because 2.5M of his base salary became guaranteed on 3/15. Should have sent him packing with Kalil. They could have shared an Uber home. Kalil was a top 5 pick and made a Pro Bowl in the first half of this decade too. 

  I don’t want any of the LTs at 16. If I thought  there was one who could be average in the NFL. Which is the point. They are both huge needs. Difference is, there are about 10 DE/DL who are worth that pick more than any OL I’ve seen this year. Even the one I like a little is Howard. But he has a long way to go and sounds like he will probably not be there at even 47 now. 

  That same rotation at DT was subpar at best last year.  Are they getting better by getting old? And the only one who may come back costs 18M. And any player can bust? We don’t know about prospects or Moton.  But he, Turner and Paradis will be here next year. How many starting caliber DE/DTs do we have signed for  2020?